RE: Fog of War (Full Version)

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Zorachus99 -> RE: Fog of War (4/21/2006 5:55:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

I really like the task force option for naval, it will save both time and aggravation. I would not likely use the unit function you describe (except perhaps during an air phase or then again maybe naval). Being able to move a stack of land units is great. I like the idea of just moving to the next closest unit on the screen when you click "next unit"


I agree, fabulous idea for an air impulse or naval impulse, (maybe combined), but the land impulse is by far the most complex when you are balancing things in russia... you simply have inspect all your stacks, enemies stacks, plan attacks, and hope your plans can handle the possibilities that play out.

-----
This is a game to love, I've been ever so frustrated getting say +10/-10 air combat and promply rolled a 7 clearing through the single UNESCORTED enemy bomber. Crazy, yet somehow real world results creep in there. War is unpredictable regardless of plan, WIF simulates this excellently.



Neilster -> RE: Fog of War (4/21/2006 11:33:41 AM)

Just wanted to support the "Next Unit" button as it is getting some flak. I use it a lot and with a little familiarity with the maps I don't find the jumping around annoying. I tend to move several units in an area, cycle through all my movable units to get an overview, then concentrate on an area again. It's handy for not missing anything.

Having said that, a more powerful version with greater control would be fine.

Cheers, Neilster



EZPkins -> RE: Uncertainty (5/30/2006 12:23:33 AM)

Igor made mention he had pc version of War in Europe anyone have a link on tht



EZPkins -> RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC Game (5/30/2006 12:59:01 AM)

Anyone out there have a link to War in Europe PC game.And whats the latest on WIF release date.



YohanTM2 -> RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC Game (5/30/2006 4:23:26 AM)

You can download a demo of the windows version and buy it at:

http://www.decisiongames.com/ 

You can read up on Doc's progress on CWiE2 here:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~nosacred99/cwie/

It should be released in June or maybe a little after.



winky51 -> RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC Game (6/7/2006 7:06:35 AM)

HOW ABOUT some fricken larger buttons.  May I suggest you all take notes on how to make a game playable.  Look at galactic civilizations 2.  Nice buttons, easy to navigate.  Make the game easy to play.  I bough War in the Pacific and I don't play it.  Why the fricken buttons are so tiny I spend half my time aligning my damn mouse so I don't make a mistake.

Include all optional rules
Ways to mod the game like altering counter values, end of turn chance per impulse, Air to Air combat results, combat charts, resourse values, factory values.  Many games now a days are making themselves moddable.  Gamers love that to make their own scenarios and change rules.

Make the system playable, as a live game converted to PC.... it wont be playable.

Player 1 "ok I attack 3 hexes and send up a these 3 bombers and 3 fighters as escort"  PBEmail
Player 2 "Hmm I intercept this air mission 1st with my fighter" PBEmail
Player 1" Ok I counter intercept with these 2 fighters" PBEmail COMBAT
Player 2" Ok you won that one, now I intercept with this fighter mission 2" PBEmail
Player 1" I counter intercept with my Me-109" PBEmail COMAT
Player 2" Ok Mission 3 I intercept with this night fighter" PBEmail
Player 1" I send up my night fighter" PBEmail COMBAT
Player 1" Ok I roll my ground stikes do you want to use emergency HQ support anywhere?" " PBEmail
Player 2" Nope I didnt" PBEmail
Player 2" Rolling ground strikes" PBEmail

Ok thats 10 fricken emails going back and forth for 3 simple ground strikes in one email.  See my point?  How long will it take to do a turn.  Think outside the box.  Make the game playable from mechanics and useability standpoint.  Note in point Master of Orion III had NEITHER of these qualities while Galactic Civ 2 has both.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC Game (6/7/2006 8:25:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: winky51

HOW ABOUT some fricken larger buttons.  May I suggest you all take notes on how to make a game playable.  Look at galactic civilizations 2.  Nice buttons, easy to navigate.  Make the game easy to play.  I bough War in the Pacific and I don't play it.  Why the fricken buttons are so tiny I spend half my time aligning my damn mouse so I don't make a mistake.

Include all optional rules
Ways to mod the game like altering counter values, end of turn chance per impulse, Air to Air combat results, combat charts, resourse values, factory values.  Many games now a days are making themselves moddable.  Gamers love that to make their own scenarios and change rules.

Make the system playable, as a live game converted to PC.... it wont be playable.

Player 1 "ok I attack 3 hexes and send up a these 3 bombers and 3 fighters as escort"  PBEmail
Player 2 "Hmm I intercept this air mission 1st with my fighter" PBEmail
Player 1" Ok I counter intercept with these 2 fighters" PBEmail COMBAT
Player 2" Ok you won that one, now I intercept with this fighter mission 2" PBEmail
Player 1" I counter intercept with my Me-109" PBEmail COMAT
Player 2" Ok Mission 3 I intercept with this night fighter" PBEmail
Player 1" I send up my night fighter" PBEmail COMBAT
Player 1" Ok I roll my ground stikes do you want to use emergency HQ support anywhere?" " PBEmail
Player 2" Nope I didnt" PBEmail
Player 2" Rolling ground strikes" PBEmail

Ok thats 10 fricken emails going back and forth for 3 simple ground strikes in one email.  See my point?  How long will it take to do a turn.  Think outside the box.  Make the game playable from mechanics and useability standpoint.  Note in point Master of Orion III had NEITHER of these qualities while Galactic Civ 2 has both.

Read the thread on PBEM in the top section of the forum.



ess1 -> Re CWiF (6/7/2006 8:04:03 PM)

I have noticed that several times CWiF has been mentioned.   Presume that this is the earlier computer wargame.
Is it still available as I would like to have a look at it whilst waiting (!)
Thanks



Froonp -> RE: Re CWiF (6/7/2006 9:11:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ess1

I have noticed that several times CWiF has been mentioned.   Presume that this is the earlier computer wargame.
Is it still available as I would like to have a look at it whilst waiting (!)
Thanks


Short answer : No.
Look here : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1100524
(CWiF thread)

This said, I personaly think that now that MWiF is so different than CWiF, CWiF should go back to the public.
But I'll stay faithfull to the word given to Matrix.



lomyrin -> RE: Re CWiF (6/7/2006 9:45:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: ess1

I have noticed that several times CWiF has been mentioned.   Presume that this is the earlier computer wargame.
Is it still available as I would like to have a look at it whilst waiting (!)
Thanks


Short answer : No.
Look here : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1100524
(CWiF thread)

This said, I personaly think that now that MWiF is so different than CWiF, CWiF should go back to the public.
But I'll stay faithfull to the word given to Matrix.


I agree with that. It is a very good teaser and introducer to the system that MWiF will improve upon.

Lars



ess1 -> RE: Re CWiF (6/8/2006 12:13:36 AM)

Thanks for prompt reply.



freeboy -> RE: Re CWiF (6/24/2006 8:16:30 AM)

btw will road and rail developement over time, and fortified positions be included? How about how to direct an economy, ships planes or tanks type issues? just curious and totally ignorant of thge board game.... good luck



fuzzy_bunnyy -> RE: Re CWiF (6/24/2006 8:37:19 AM)

Roads and rails are never changed, they are fixed on the map. (one of the few additions WIF needs imho)

Forts may be built as detailed below, and several forts are printed on the map(the maginot line, singapore, etc.)

The wartime economy is controlled by the player. You decide what types of units to build(for example in fighters you can chose to build 1 engine interceptors that generally have short range and good combat factors, or twin engine fighter bombers that are generally non specialized, versatile, and longer ranged) and get a random unit of that type. As countries gear up for war they get increased "production multiple", which when multiplied by "production points"(actual resources going to factories) gives you "build points"(how much/many units you get to build). 

Ships, planes, and land units(tanks have special rules associated with them but they arent extremly complicated) are interlinked very well. Its my favorite feature of the game how seamlessly all the systems interact.

If your still interested, you can download the rules for free here.

http://www.a-d-g.com.au/download/WiF-RaW-7-aug-04.doc



freeboy -> RE: Re CWiF (6/24/2006 10:34:12 PM)

great responce fb, but I was actually thinking in the new computer version, makes no sense to me to not be able to add a road, like the one in india/china built to help get supplies .. or rail lines.. as did the germans as they converted the tracks from the gauges used by the Reds to those used by their economy.. interesting project



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 12:55:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
great responce fb, but I was actually thinking in the new computer version, makes no sense to me to not be able to add a road, like the one in india/china built to help get supplies .. or rail lines.. as did the germans as they converted the tracks from the gauges used by the Reds to those used by their economy.. interesting project


My contract is to recreate WIF FE (Final Edition) on the computer. My task is not to create a WIF development kit. The former is quite enough work, thank you very much. 80 optional rules, for example. Additional tasks are not required.

However, within the scope of MWIF, I am still looking for suggestions on how to implement the player interface so the game can be played with maximum enjoyment and minimal aggravation (as all games inevitably produce after you play them for a period of time). And there are other questions I pose to the forum members from time to time. Additions to the basic units, map, and rules are not usually in that category.

The China map is an exception because WIF FE and MWIF differ in regards to scale, so changes have to be made in China, Scandinavia, and elsewhere around the world. I am not sweating the details for most of those changes, but China is a very active and important theater of combat, that can have a dramatic impact on play in general and play balance in particular.



freeboy -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 5:12:01 AM)

ok, so I take it we are not going to see building, no a problem.. what is the scale for the turn time? Is there a faq, interested how naval combat is handled...

thanks again



Mziln -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 5:27:11 AM)

You can click this link: Australian Design Group

Select the "Downloads" button and get a copy of the WiF FE (World in Flames Final Edition) Rules and Sceanarios.

This is also known as the RAW (Rules As Written) [sm=terms.gif]



freeboy -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 8:19:54 AM)

ok, dont want to read a novel, just the cliff notes, is asking whatthe turn scale really such a tough ? give me a break here guys..



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 11:08:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
ok, dont want to read a novel, just the cliff notes, is asking whatthe turn scale really such a tough ? give me a break here guys..


Actually, it is not that easy to answer. Each turn is for 2 months, 6 per year. Within each turn are a variable number of impulses, which depends primarily on the weather - often more than 12 during the summer and as few as 5 or 6 during the winter. Die rolls decide when the turn is over but the players can influence it by being inactive (choosing to Pass). This is an oversimplification, but it should give you a sense of the time scale.



Neilster -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 5:59:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, so I take it we are not going to see building, no a problem.. what is the scale for the turn time? Is there a faq, interested how naval combat is handled...

thanks again


You'll have to trust us that stuff like this is handled by the game mechanics and optional rules. Don't worry. It works. The game has a very broad sweep and a lot of details are abstracted.

Cheers, Neilster



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/25/2006 10:01:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
... interested how naval combat is handled...


Naval combat is complex and you really need to read RAW to understand it. There are 3 basic combat results tables for naval combat (sub, surface, and air) plus air-to-air combat and anti-aircraft fire that can precede it. Then there are: optional rules for an expanded ASW subsystem, different ship types and capabilities, transported cargo, surprise points that can be used a different places in the combat system, land based air units and carrier based air units, ... the list just keeps on going. A terse summary is not really possible without raising more questions than it answers.



c92nichj -> RE: Re CWiF (6/26/2006 1:27:17 PM)

FIve types of ships exists;Surface combat Ships( battle ships, Crusiers, destroyers etc) Carriers, Transports, Submarines and convoys

Naval units are placed in seareas. The medeterrainian consist of three sea areas; west, east and Italian Coast, all bordering Malta.

A ship can have 5 different position in a sea area 0-4. The higher box you are in the more active you ar in patrolling the area and the better you are positioned to intercept/avoid enemy ships.

Each time a combat is initiated in a sea area each player make a roll (modifed by weather, presence of aircraft and convoys) if either player roll below his search number(0-4) combat is initiated and the player with a good search split you roll low opponent high, gets an advantage in combat.



Zorachus99 -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 5:06:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
... interested how naval combat is handled...


Naval combat is complex and you really need to read RAW to understand it. There are 3 basic combat results tables for naval combat (sub, surface, and air) plus air-to-air combat and anti-aircraft fire that can precede it. Then there are: optional rules for an expanded ASW subsystem, different ship types and capabilities, transported cargo, surprise points that can be used a different places in the combat system, land based air units and carrier based air units, ... the list just keeps on going. A terse summary is not really possible without raising more questions than it answers.


The rulebook needs to be rewritten (not volunteering) as a 'light' version that omits many of the tasks the computer performs. Something to ease you into the game, but glosses over things that aren't critical to playing. Once a player can handle the light manual, they will go off searching for the detailed one at random times to look up obscure rules.

Another idea is to incorporate the rulebook into the game and merely selecting a unit would allow you to hit F1 to find out the pertinent rules to the type of unit that is selected.

Ideas, nothing more.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 5:53:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
The rulebook needs to be rewritten (not volunteering) as a 'light' version that omits many of the tasks the computer performs. Something to ease you into the game, but glosses over things that aren't critical to playing. Once a player can handle the light manual, they will go off searching for the detailed one at random times to look up obscure rules.

Another idea is to incorporate the rulebook into the game and merely selecting a unit would allow you to hit F1 to find out the pertinent rules to the type of unit that is selected.

Ideas, nothing more.


Ideas are good.

Several beta testers split up RAW and went through it specifically to identify where MWIF will need changes made. For example, references to off-map boxes. I have their annotations for all of RAW. Mziln is also going through RAW and pulling out the sections for each of the optional rules (he was up to #29 out of 80 last time I checked). Peter has volunteered to edit those aggragations into something a little easier to read.

Eventually I expect to create a RAC document as about half of the player's manual. RAC is Rules As Coded, and is intended to perform the same function as RAW, but for MWIF instead of WIF FE.

The other half of the player's manual will explain the player interface for MWIF - how to play WIF using the computer. I expect the tutorials to help players who are new to WIF a lot and I intend to have them accessible during play.

As far as context sensitive help, I am all for it, but I do not have the mechanism thought out in any detail. Just a loose "press F1, get help" which is not sufficient detail for creating anything that will actually be useful to the players. I despise 'help' systems that never provide any help (they just waste your time) and will not create one unless it correctly anticipates the question(s) the player is most likely to want answered.



Anendrue -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 5:41:53 PM)

It would be great if the RAC document could be a pre-release so we can come up to speed on differances in using the computer as an interface. Especially since RAW has always been available as a download. Besides it might help gear up sales just a bit and keep the sharks from circling as they get antsy for a release. Hmmm, buy a stein and get a printed RAC as a combined product etc...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 10:00:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562
It would be great if the RAC document could be a pre-release so we can come up to speed on differances in using the computer as an interface. Especially since RAW has always been available as a download. Besides it might help gear up sales just a bit and keep the sharks from circling as they get antsy for a release. Hmmm, buy a stein and get a printed RAC as a combined product etc...


Well, I expect to post the RAC to the forum for review, once I get writing it underway. Indeed, most of the Player's manual is likely to be posted piecemeal over time. My logic here is rather simple - the RAC and Player's manual are worthless unless you own a copy of the game.



Anendrue -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 10:08:26 PM)

I have to agree it would definitely be useless without a copy of the computer MWiF itself. The nice thing is that all the decisions discussed on this forum, interfaces and other items that you have worked on for so long can finally be viewed as a cohesive unit. Hopefully Matrix would allow them to host this document on their website.



YohanTM2 -> RE: Re CWiF (6/27/2006 10:53:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Well, I expect to post the RAC to the forum for review...


Oh great, a homework assignment [:'(]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Re CWiF (6/28/2006 12:00:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Well, I expect to post the RAC to the forum for review...


Oh great, a homework assignment [:'(]


Well, you could think of it more like trying on pants and asking the tailor for adjustments prior to purchasing them. Bell bottoms for the sailors?



Fred98 -> RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC Game (10/27/2006 2:32:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath
What do you think needs to be in World in Flames?



That the graphics look OK on a large LCD TV.





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