How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (Full Version)

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Muzrub -> How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/9/2004 3:22:14 PM)

What are the best tactics for soviet troops?

Against both infantry and panzers?

Should the HQ unit play a more pro-active role?

I seem to have problems with my soviet troops during fire fights and after arty attacks. Is there a way to keep them motivated without just having to hit the rally button and what are the consequences of using rally too often?

Thanks[&o]



Warrior2 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/9/2004 3:24:44 PM)

Use them as cannon fodder, attack & attack! Most of their experience and morale is low, so beat on the R key. As far as I know you can't overdo that.



Frank W. -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/9/2004 3:40:26 PM)

play H2H there you will get some more little bit east front feeling because russian troops are cheaper.

just buy for every tiger 2 and a half T 34
for every panther 3 Su76 or so....and a
bunch of cheap inf. and some guards or
paratroopers to backup, also the 120mm
mortar of the russians should not be under
rated !



Rune Iversen -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/9/2004 4:40:02 PM)

Use nothing less than a reinforced Motor Rifle Regiment supported by Divisional and Army assets [:D]



Alexandra -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/9/2004 4:47:58 PM)

The Russians are the hardest of the Allied armies to play. The reason for this, IMO, tends to be cultural. The Russians fought in different ways than the Western Allies. And, one of the key tenets of thuer style was a disregard for casualties.

In most situations, the Russians should have more men than the Germans. Just attack. Attack in mass, in human waves. Ignore losses and push on. If a squad breaks, rally as you can, and when they do, toss them back into the fight.

Get in close, especially with SMG squads, and, by doing so, negate the enemies air power, and arty. After all, the Germans cannot afford to match you in losses.

Use your own Arty.

And, focus your attack. Pick a spot to hit them, and hit them there with as much as you can bring to bear. Make the odds, at the one spot, as high as you can, and, after you smash through, roll him up.

Of course, that all assumes your attacking!

If he is, then, use Pakfronts to stop the attack, then swing over onto it yourself!

Alex



Muzrub -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/10/2004 3:22:22 AM)

Thanks Lads for all your help.

I was hoping there was more to being the soviets than banging your head against the wall though![:'(]

I have been playing a friend for quite a while from 41 to what is now I believe 44.

I've had a win, loss and draws etc etc.
Actually I think he is up on the wins by one. Its so hard to remove those cats from the game play. But I must admit I do have some luck in that area.



AngryDeemon1 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/10/2004 10:48:08 PM)

I tend to play exclusively the Soviets, to vareous effect, and heres some things I do.

1. Recon By Combat! Load Conscripts on GazAA Trucks pair em up with a Armoured Car or two And Push Forward. Conscripts will live longer than scout patrols, and have a tendency of being ignored in favor of other targets due to their percieved weakness.

2. Early in the War Light Armor (BA-10/11 BT-7 and especially the ZIS-30 Tank Destroyer) are your best freinds. Mix Them up at a 2:1:1 Ratio. This is especially effective against opponents who use many self propelled guns.

3. Get in Up close and Personal. Russian troops have trouble with Long Range Duels. A Dirty Knife Range Fight in the Forest will generally see you come out on top.

4. If you can Afford two ammo dumps you can use BM-8 Katyushas to fire 2 out of every 3 turns. You wont get any kills but massive surpression and forest fires are guaranteed.

5. If it moves Shoot a 120mm Mortar at it. If it doesnt move Shoot it with a 120mm anyway, maybe theres someone nearby.

6. Refering to point Number 3. Flame tanks are some of the best armor killers available. Pair them with a nice forest to hide in And your beleagured conscripts can reduce stress with a nice cookout.

7. Cheap and Effective well placed partisans are really good at killing any strategically place 88s that your crafty opponent has (Eh Viking?). Of course you have to guess where hese gonna put em.



Belisarius -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/10/2004 11:58:00 PM)

1) stock up on tanks.

2) roll forward


[8D]



AngryDeemon1 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/11/2004 12:13:06 AM)

Ancient Russian Saying say" There is no Karate move against man with crow-bar
(or a battalion of t-28s)



Grimm -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/11/2004 8:14:42 PM)

As already mentioned, lots of numbers. Try to gain local superiority and don't let your forces string out too much. Also, I tend to buy lots of lighter arty for the Russians. My understanding of their doctrine supports big barrages.



Muzrub -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/12/2004 3:23:14 AM)

In my latest game I have bought quite a few Soviet troops.......The plan being hold a position on mass and depth.

But I cant say too much because the game is in progress.

The only problem I see with soviet arty is the delay involved. I dare say its historical but I do believe the Soviets should be able to use plenty of arty, especialy in the later years. But some oppenents are against this. Luckily the fellow I am playing doesnt mind.

What's the general view of the board?

Should the Soviet player be able to buy more arty without the opposition complaining?
Of course though I do buy plenty of arty I dont think its unbalanced- considering what else I buy.



KG Erwin -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/12/2004 3:38:51 AM)

People actually play as the Russians? Mein Gott!
Actually, I find this refreshing, as everyone wants to be the Germans, but even if you play as the Germans in a long campaign, the war ends as in every other long campaign--when it ends it just ends--no victory celebration or bowing to your conquerors in defeat.
Are the Russians in a long campaign really that hopeless?
I find that hard to believe. Listen, if you do want to play a long campaign as the Russians, start with the Finnish War in November-December 1939, or even June 1939, and possibly face the Japanese at the Khalkhin-Gol. I started one as an experiment, and I was given a delay mission against the Finns. They are tough, determined fighters, but this is where you should start. In any case, start the campaign in the early fights, NOT against the Germans in June 1941. Give your troops a chance to gain some experience BEFORE they face the Wehrmacht in the Great Patriotic War. Forget the leadership purge. YOU escaped it, somehow, and your troops are the cream of the Russian Army. This is the attitude you should take from battle number one.
I'm just guessing, you will still take some lumps in 1941-42, but your upgrades from 1943-45 should transform your core force into an unstoppable juggernaut.



Muzrub -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/12/2004 4:47:46 AM)

I dont mind playing as the Soviets.

I find you learn alot more when your back is against the wall each game. But you also learn how good the germans really are. The next time I play someone and I take the German side I will know what I am truely capable of, I know I cant just trust in the size of the mighty Tiger or Panther.

Tiger wise I have some success.
I only ever attack in numbers, I try to make sure I can hit from the side or behind.
I find German players seem to send out there Tigers either alone or with only one other in support and send the rest to another part of the battlefield, they trust in its abilities to destroy all!

But in small numbers I may loose almost 1 for 1 with T34's if tigers are in a larger group I try to allow them to approach my infantry and hope my troops stop them or disable one or two. This once again cuts down on Tiger numbers then I can attack on mass with Soviet tanks. I get in close with OT34's and burn the bastards in their tank.


But I will take the campaign idea on board and have a go at the finns and japs......should be fun.



mattenhoff -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/12/2004 7:23:21 PM)

Yeah, it's a tough gig to play Soviets. Nothing dramatically new to add, I use a rule of thumb: Attack German tank with a tank platoon and a german tank platoon with a company.

Keep your units in very tight packages, a company within 2-3 hex radius.

If your attack bogs down, don't feed more troops on the bogged ones, that only makes them die in even higher numbers. Try to flank. Somehow.

I think tankriders are the best the red army can offer. Try to master tank/SU + SMG tactics.

Artillery? Hmmm, they're quite often offline and not so accurate. I'm not sure if it always help that much - of course it comes handy when you attack fixed positions. In meetings, I dunno.



o4r -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/13/2004 5:47:46 PM)

Russian historical tactic

6 April, the second battle of Lake Ladoga.

From Franz Kurowski - Panzer Aces

The Russian had recovered the Gorodok electrical generatung plant on the 17 Feb. The German pull back to their main line of resistance 4 km to the south, where it ran along the so called "Burma Road" which led from Neva through Sinyavino to the Wengler Block.

However the efforts of the German grenadiers and panzer grenadiers, combat engineers and artillerymen and above all the panzer crew prevented the Soviets from reaching their main objective, the Kirov rail line.

A handful of German divisions had held out against an assault by 48 Soviet rifles div, 19 rifle brigades, a mechanized shock div, 19 armd brigades & regiments and 10 independent armoured battalions.

The Soviet had suffered heavy lossess. 4 km of ground had been gained at a cost of 270,000 dead and wounded. a total of 847 tanks had been destroyed or put out of action and 693 aircraft were lost over the front.

Well guess what sort of tatics they used [:'(]

Unforunately it is quite hard to had that sort of unit or ratio when we played SPWAW when playing russian vs german.



Grimm -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/13/2004 7:26:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muzrub

The only problem I see with soviet arty is the delay involved. I dare say its historical but I do believe the Soviets should be able to use plenty of arty, especialy in the later years. But some oppenents are against this. Luckily the fellow I am playing doesnt mind.



You need to use different tactics. When playing Americans, for example, you can selectively pound specific units with big guns because of the quick response times. As the Soviets, you need to use their tactics - rolling barrages. When I play Soviets, I target where I think the enemy is and where I will be in a couple of turns. It really requires much more planning to be useful. I then just blanket the area and keep my fingers crossed. This tactic works when you follow what the Soviets used - lots of 76mm guns. I tend to ignore the big Soviet guns unless they are the onboard mortars. I also like the rockets. They pack a real punch but you cross your fingers every time they launch hopeing they don't land on your own troops! [sm=00000959.gif]



Frank W. -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/13/2004 11:15:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: o4r

Russian historical tactic

6 April, the second battle of Lake Ladoga.

From Franz Kurowski - Panzer Aces

The Russian had recovered the Gorodok electrical generatung plant on the 17 Feb. The German pull back to their main line of resistance 4 km to the south, where it ran along the so called "Burma Road" which led from Neva through Sinyavino to the Wengler Block.

However the efforts of the German grenadiers and panzer grenadiers, combat engineers and artillerymen and above all the panzer crew prevented the Soviets from reaching their main objective, the Kirov rail line.

A handful of German divisions had held out against an assault by 48 Soviet rifles div, 19 rifle brigades, a mechanized shock div, 19 armd brigades & regiments and 10 independent armoured battalions.

The Soviet had suffered heavy lossess. 4 km of ground had been gained at a cost of 270,000 dead and wounded. a total of 847 tanks had been destroyed or put out of action and 693 aircraft were lost over the front.

Well guess what sort of tatics they used [:'(]

Unforunately it is quite hard to had that sort of unit or ratio when we played SPWAW when playing russian vs german.


mhh... this might be true. but i just want to question
the objectivity of kurowski.

i read a book named "panzertechnik" which had IMHO
some german propaganda in it. it was also not about
technics from tanks but mostly quite boring battle
reports from the german side. luckily i got rid of
the book in e-bay for a handful €[X(]



pbhawkin1 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/14/2004 2:27:06 AM)

Hi all,
In a recent game a managed to eliminate a Battalion (28 squads) of conscripts supported by 3 x T-34 and 3 x OT- 34 (flame tanks) with:
2 x panther As, 4 x Stug 40s, 2 x Skdfz 6/2 (20mm quad), 2 x Krupp mounted Engineer platoons (6 squads and 2x MMG 42 squads) and the occassional arty barrage [8D]

pbhawkins



Charles2222 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/14/2004 2:34:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muzrub

What are the best tactics for soviet troops?

Against both infantry and panzers?

Should the HQ unit play a more pro-active role?

I seem to have problems with my soviet troops during fire fights and after arty attacks. Is there a way to keep them motivated without just having to hit the rally button and what are the consequences of using rally too often?

Thanks[&o]


A) Run away.

B) Pretend you're running your fastest from the infantry, just so you can save the really speedy running away for the panzers.

c) Yes, it can start the running away.

d) The consequences of hitting rally too often is that they don't run away as much. Don't rally them![sm=terms.gif]



AngryDeemon1 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/14/2004 3:26:32 AM)

Them are fightin' words Charles.



Charles2222 -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/14/2004 4:17:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AngryDeemon1

Them are fightin' words Charles.


I think we need a running away smiley for moments like this. It could also serve as tactical advice for fighting with the USSR.



Rune Iversen -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/16/2004 1:43:45 PM)

Win with the soviets? Easy, use T72s [;)]



FNG -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (2/22/2004 3:11:39 PM)

Playing a long campaign as Soviets at the moment and am doing quite well. For best results when attacking, I pound the area with 120mm mortar fire, then attack with waves of infantry closely supported by armour. By keeping the artillery slightly ahead of the infantry (lifting 100m per turn) you overcome the problems with artillery delay.

I have also recently discovered the usefulness of cossacks/cavalry backed up by light armour to harry your opponent's flanks and cut up his rear echelon units - I have massacred many mortar batteries with the Red horsemen[:)]



MOTHER -> RE: How to get the best out of Soviet troops? (3/5/2004 3:40:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Hi all,
In a recent game a managed to eliminate a Battalion (28 squads) of conscripts supported by 3 x T-34 and 3 x OT- 34 (flame tanks) with:
2 x panther As, 4 x Stug 40s, 2 x Skdfz 6/2 (20mm quad), 2 x Krupp mounted Engineer platoons (6 squads and 2x MMG 42 squads) and the occassional arty barrage [8D]

pbhawkins

I shall own up as the butcher sending those poor boys to death for the good of mother russia.Unfortunatly the attack was against a defended hilltop steppe hieght 20,accross an open plain with the above mentioned assembly which to balance the ledger had eliminated every krupp truck [with a mounted aamg],3 stugs,1 panther, both sdkfz 6/2,reduced the engineers to a pulp although not erradicated but ineffective.
It was a slaughter, and some units actually made it to the slope of the steppe ,but oberst pb was made to pay.
In the whole context of the game I lost and it was the "sniper elephants" in the end that really did the damage,but boy it was fun[:'(]



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