South Africans 1939-45 (Full Version)

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Dan Greaves -> South Africans 1939-45 (8/25/2001 11:34:00 AM)

I saw a web site about South Africa and there involvement in the second war, in it was information about how they opposed British rule,invited German troops in and sent troops to fight in Europe and the Eastern front. Throughout my life I had allways thought that SA had provided men and materials to the allies. I know that the Boers hated us But I have never heard of German troops been stationed in SA. It could be a good idea for a little senario? BUT I don't know anything about it.



troopie -> (8/25/2001 1:19:00 PM)

AFAIK there were never any German troops in SA. After a bitter debate the South African parliament declared on Germany in 1939. South Africans, including my father and uncle, fought alongside the British in Madagascar, Ethiopia, North Africa and Italy. My uncle was wounded in Ethiopia. The South African Navy patrolled the waters off the Cape and kept it clear of German and Japanese subs. The South African Air Force fought in Africa and Europe. South African minerals, food and machinery flowed to the allies. The Marmon Herrington e.g. was a South African weapon. The Sherman flail mineclear tank was infented by a South African There were never more than a few South Africans, almost entirely Afrikaners, who were pro-Axis. They were regarded as a lunatic fringe, and mostly spent the war years cooling their heels in prison. Oh BTW the Prime Minister in those years was Jan C. Smuts an Afrikaner, and a Boer guerrilla commander. troopie



Fabs -> (8/25/2001 3:08:00 PM)

Yes, I must admit I never heard such nonsense. South Africans fought with the Empire forces against the Axis. Just goes to show what rubbish can be found on the Net.



Dan Greaves -> (8/26/2001 3:17:00 AM)

Here's the web address : www.violentpeace.com under the subsection the way it was.



troopie -> (8/26/2001 9:26:00 AM)

I went to that site and found nothing about South Africans fighting with the Germans in WW2. There is a short section about the South African War, Second or Great Anglo-Boer War, or Tweede Vryheidsoorlog, depending on your political orientation. The site is very rough and unpolished. troopie



Paul Vebber -> (8/26/2001 9:27:00 AM)

Click on the artilce "the way it was" on the left hand side. Talk about revisionist history... More like pure Fabrication...Graf Spee was sunk by a torpedo in Cape Town Harbour??? Try scuttled after teh Battle of the River Platte... Nad Admiral Scheer destroyed in action off Cape Pont in Dec 41??? I guess it was some other Pocket Battleship bombed at Kiel in 1945... Stuff like this is a travesty... I am not an expert in South African history, but this seems the ravings of one of those Axis Afrikaner sympathizers troopie speaks of... [ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]



troopie -> (8/26/2001 12:28:00 PM)

There is not a word of truth in that chronology. There was no South Afican Civil War in 1939-40. No provinces ever tried to secede. South Africa was a staunch ally of the British. Britain never declared war on South Africa. The 'Way it Was' is nothing but a goddamned lie, and a poorly told lie at that. Anyone who believes it is misleading himself. It is an insult to my father, my uncle, and the thousands of other South Africans who fought for the Allies under both the Vierkleur and the Union Jack. troopie [ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: troopie ]



Dan Greaves -> (8/26/2001 1:19:00 PM)

I'm awfully sorry if I offended anyone by pointing out a website, as I said before I have never heard of this thread of history even though I went to school. If it wasn't for your Granddad and one or two others includeing members of my family I wouldn't be living in this Eutopian paradise. PS I used yo have a parrot called Troopie whose desd now



troopie -> (8/27/2001 12:21:00 AM)

I'm not offended by you, but by the liars who put up that site. It stands as a warning that you must never believe everything you read on the 'net. (The ghosts recede, singing 'Die Stem van Suid Afrika' and 'God Save the King'. troopie



bradmbrown -> (8/27/2001 8:43:00 AM)

Had a boardgame once called, oh jeez, I can't remember. Anyway, it was North African Desert. In there were many troops allied to Britain. There were Indians from India, Canucks from Canada, Jewish Brigade from, I think, England, troops from Rhodesia and South Africa. And a lot more. In the game rules booklet, right in the jacket, first page, the author of the rules wrote a tyrade about Apartied in SA and Rhodesia and Orange Free State, etc, and how bad and naughty the current regime is (WAS)... this is an old game... I thought a rant like that was a little out of place, a LOT out of place, in a rules set for a game... I sure hope SA keeps its mighty stature in that region. Now that all folks have a voice, there is WONDERFUL potential for that nation. Nice and big, lots of good food grown, an educated workforce (and better each year, nowadays), well done industries (I have never bought a product from SA that wasn't top notch), reasonable climate, huge coastline, beautiful parks and rich resources... Oh, by the way:
Rebellion in SA at the eve of WW2?? Nope. HOWEVER, there was a Boer uprising in 1916, Smuts was instrumental in crushing it.



Waylander -> (8/28/2001 2:53:00 AM)

Hate to upset you General Amnesty, but SA is going down the same road that almost all African nations have marched since the end of the colonial era. I worked in Sa in the late 80's, capetown, Port Elizabeth and Mossle bay.
This was at the height of the "anti-Apartheid" press.
I myself did not see one instance of apartheid in Cape town, I was in the Capetonian Hotel and was quite surprised that in the bar there were Black,coloureds, asians and whites all drinking side by side.
Since the end of this era SA has become a dangerous and lawless place. In Jo'burg you can run red lights at night without fear of being stopped by the police, due to the high incidence of car-jackings, oftenwith extreme violence.
I work with friends from SA who deplore the breakdown of law and order. The Rand is becoming a joke, and people are living in armed camps.
Hardly a paradise. Sounds just like the story of Congo/Nigeria/mozambique/ivory coast/lberia and all the other central/south african nations who have gone down the tubes.



troopie -> (8/28/2001 9:08:00 AM)

Maybe I met you. I'm from Cape Town, but I'm sure I won't remember you. I have a terrible head for names and faces. It isn't quite as bad in SA as the rest of Africa, I was there last year, but it's getting there. I'm hoping that the parties currently in power learn that a treasury is not free money for anyone that wants it, that infrastructure and schools MUST be maintained, and that rhetoric is no substitute for accomplishment. And General, the Boer revolt was in Nov. and Dec. 1914. It is known to history as Beyers' Rebellion. Christiaan Dewet, Christiaan Beyers and Manie Maritz raised the standard of revolt against the Union government. Louis Botha, Premier, former Boer guerrilla personally led Afrikaner commandos to put the rebellion down. The main battle was at Mushroom Valley, near Bloemfontein. The rebels were completely defeated. Stragglers tried to cross into Bechuanaland, but were run down. By the end of 1914 the rebellion was over. troopie



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