Tank Driver's Ed? (Full Version)

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AbsntMndedProf -> Tank Driver's Ed? (8/31/2001 10:17:00 AM)

One thing that continued to frustrate me with DF is the way my tank/armored car drivers keep driving over walls and through buildings, even though they get stuck there. Don't they train tank drivers to avoid buildings? Just had to get that off my chest. Eric Maietta



Grumble -> (8/31/2001 9:45:00 PM)

Yeah, you gotta be pretty anal-retentive and only move 'em a hex or two at a time. If it's any consolation, there was a plan to rectify this situation in CL.



Kluckenbill -> (8/31/2001 11:33:00 PM)

I think this has actually been improved quite a bit throughout the various versions of SWPWAW. Although its far from perfect, 6.1 does a much better job of avoiding obstacles than some of the earlier versions. This is especially true of the Computer player, 'he' no longer gets half of his tanks immobilized moving through a town. You still have to move hex-by-hex when you are near to dangerous terrain.



Supervisor -> (8/31/2001 11:56:00 PM)

The hex by hex movement is the smartest and safest, you can also plot waypoints for long areas of movement but this is not perfect either.



Dan Bozza -> (9/1/2001 12:40:00 AM)

It took a while, but I was finally able to deprogram myself from clicking 10 hexes away and letting the vehicle loose. Every once in a while I'll forget though, and I get that sinking feeling while I watch helplessly while my command tank smashes gleefully into a brick wall!



bradmbrown -> (9/1/2001 1:55:00 AM)

I got wary of walls a couple versions ago. What gives me the "sinking feeling" is when a unit is standing a hex or two away from a minefield hex and I tell it to move to "that place, over there," and I point to the hex and go click! And the unit promptly aims itself at a HUGE fifty meter wide skull and crossbones RIGHT THERE, painted on the gound in front of it. I mean, X guys have been blasted there, their little computer legs all {deleted], their computer wounds all [deleted] their computer screams of agony [deleted], yet other little computer troops gleefully put the right foot forward and promptly have it [deleted]. I suppose a thing to do would be a timed game with an opponent who has a whackload of cheap units. Give him 5 minutes for a move and put patterns of landmines where he will be busy. FORCE your opponent to move his units one hex at a time. Before turn three, he will have MOUSE WRIST so bad, he will surrender. Tada!



Paul Vebber -> (9/1/2001 2:05:00 AM)

We always want perfect, robotroops that alldo exactly what we want, when we want them to. BUt really how realistic is this? How many letters were written by CO's home with the regret "Your son died doing his duty" when the tearful Commander wanted to write, "If only the idiot had done what I told him he would be alive"... Read BlackHawk down for a great insight into how easy things suddenly became hard and go terribly wrong...and is with modern special forces troops!! Its a wargame designers lament - player cry for "realism" when what they want is technical detail...the weapons should work accordig to spec and the troops able to do what the player wants 100% of the time...when they don't, it not "realistic"! Meaning the player didn't get the outcome expected - something NO real Commander ever gets



AbsntMndedProf -> (9/1/2001 3:24:00 AM)

Shucks! I wouldn't feel so bad if the Brit's tanks did the same thing.



Paul Vebber -> (9/1/2001 4:06:00 AM)

Well, yes consistency in being inconsitent is required



tracer -> (9/1/2001 6:28:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Kluckenbill:
I think this has actually been improved quite a bit throughout the various versions of SWPWAW. Although its far from perfect, 6.1 does a much better job of avoiding obstacles than some of the earlier versions.
I've noticed a huge improvement too. From what I gathered in previous threads on this topic, map errors are to blame: placing buidings where road hexes were, but not completely removing all traces of the road afterwards. The game thinks the 'path of least resistance' goes right through a 2 story, multihex building. Tedious as it may be, you can't go wrong with hex-at-a-time.



bradmbrown -> (9/1/2001 8:53:00 AM)

There is a certain way I like to play when I am in solitaire mode. I make my decisions as fast as I can.
Yep. Just like real commanders, no time, no time. Makee lottsa mistakee that way! Goooood!
When an unexpected thing happens, say a unit runs into a mine RIGHT THERE that I didn't tell it to NOT move through, I get a BIG rush when I hear the sickening explosion (there ought to be some screams too, so I can feel guilty) and I KEEP playing. No backtracking to a saved game.
This way I can go through much of the hell the scenario designer wished me to - without the agony of having to write home to the Mothers. I don't mind at all a unit doing something I didn't expect. What BUGS ME IS MOUSE WRIST.
That's all. I hate mouse wrist. I wish there were keyboard shortcuts to facilitate movement commands for those of us Carpal Tunnel challenged. I know there aren't, I know there is not much more can be done for this game etc etc. I can work on a keyboard for many many hours before my parts start to fall of and go splat on the floor. But I get tired really quick with mouse. Please don't tell me again, "Matrix has no plans to deal with the issue that will, instead be dealt with in CL/CA." I already know that! It's getting as redundant as the old standbye from M$, "Did you try re-installing?" Grins. I will keep playing, mouse or not. If it takes seventy five mouse clicks to move two hexes, I will continue to tolerate it. Second best game I ever played, the first is something I won't talk about in a public forum



Mike Oshiki -> (9/1/2001 7:12:00 PM)

I can't speak to WWII-era tank drivers, but I can tell you from personal experience that one of the MOST frustrating thing in the world is to be parked in the TC's cupola screaming through your CVC at the driver to 1) NOT pivot steer, 2) avoid the slope that you can see where you will certainly throw a track, 3) turn the OTHER way, 4) ad naseum... - only to have him seemingly blissfully do EXACTLY what you told him not to. Only consolation was in M113's you could have an antenna segment with you that would just reach to smack them on their helmet. Worked great when the intercom was out - smack him on either side of the head to turn that way, twice to go forward, once to stop...



robber -> (9/2/2001 5:35:00 AM)

Didn't you know that this is a good thing? Gives you someone to blame when you loose! You know:
"If the game hadn't immobilized my Sherman on turn 12 I would have won!" Works great for me anyway! /robber



LeibstandartePzD -> (9/2/2001 12:21:00 PM)

I know what you mean Mike. Having spent quite a number of years in the TC's hatch it's a never ending battle at times between you and your driver. I've "eaten" my .50 cal. a number of times when the driver won out over my screaming. ;-)



tracer -> (9/3/2001 12:49:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Oshiki:
Only consolation was in M113's you could have an antenna segment with you that would just reach to smack them on their helmet. Worked great when the intercom was out - smack him on either side of the head to turn that way, twice to go forward, once to stop...
Amazing how some things never change: saw a program on the History Channel last week about the T34 tank. They had alot of old crewman on and a former TC described using the *exact* same set of signals to 'talk' to his driver. You'd figure after 60 years technology would have come up with a better system



Truckeye -> (9/3/2001 4:22:00 AM)

a friend of my fathers served as a TC in WW2. he knew some of the crews that had dealt with Patton when he chose to command a tank from time to time. said those guys would always gripe about the General digging at their shoulders with his heels left or right and a big boot to stop or move out. the family friends tank was named battlin' bob (his name was bob) and was knocked out in the early days of the bulge by (you guessed it) an 88. the fact he lost most the crew and his leg stopped my from smirking. EVERYONE was hit by an 88 it seems. bob has been a tremendous source of history and war stories over the years.



Mike Oshiki -> (9/3/2001 7:51:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by LeibstandartePzD:
I know what you mean Mike. Having spent quite a number of years in the TC's hatch it's a never ending battle at times between you and your driver. I've "eaten" my .50 cal. a number of times when the driver won out over my screaming. ;-)
quote:

Originally posted by tracer:
Amazing how some things never change: saw a program on the History Channel last week about the T34 tank. They had alot of old crewman on and a former TC described using the *exact* same set of signals to 'talk' to his driver. You'd figure after 60 years technology would have come up with a better system
Well, considering the cdr's MG on an M1A1 (and the TC’s MG on a 113 that generated many an Army dentist’s reconstructive nightmare) is the same basic weapon used during WW2, then I guess it really doesn't seem that odd...



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