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skukko -> (9/5/2001 12:02:00 AM)

ok, I haven't seen this: Is it real hard to send password to other gamer ? I have done it few times and its ok... mosh



Fuerte -> (9/5/2001 12:46:00 AM)

Sending password to another player is out of the question for several reasons: 1) You should never reveal your passwords to anyone, it is a matter of principle 2) If you reveal your passwords, then you should have a unique password for each game 3) Remembering a unique password for each game is impossible 4) Using PBEM helper to generate and save the password would work, but unfortunately you can't enter the password automatically, and SPWAW does not support clipboard when entering the password and it does not have a command line options to load a game directly (OK, so Combat Mission does not support it either, but it still works, because the PBEM helper sends mouse clicks and keyboard presses, but it was not my code, and it is a bit clumsy) 5) The full security is possible without revealing passwords, it just requires doing the end game sequence differently



David Heath -> (9/5/2001 2:01:00 AM)

Hi Fuerte One must really understand the code we are working with. Most of these items are major work that can and will break God knows what. At this time we can not dedicate anymore time to this. As for the new projects do not worry. Matrix SPWaW team is not the only team working here. Matrix Games has a few development teams working with it so we are not ALL doing ALL of these games at once. Kharan page is nice but a little to late to really be used. We are already done with spwaw v7.0 and doubt any of these bugs will get addressed if they have not already. As I promise I have it one last look over and attempt to correct what if any I can.



Fuerte -> (9/5/2001 3:35:00 AM)

Thanks David for your comments! I wish you all good luck with your forthcoming products. The title for this thread was exaggeration, but at least I got my message through.



Charles2222 -> (9/5/2001 6:37:00 AM)

skukko: BTR is Bombing the Reich AKA TOH (Twelve O'Clock High).



troopie -> (9/5/2001 8:23:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
skukko: BTR is Bombing the Reich AKA TOH (Twelve O'Clock High).
Oh. I thought it was Bronentransportr. troopie



Greg McCarty -> (9/5/2001 11:41:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by skukko:
I've have enough mem and can't even simulate some bugs... But really, what is BTR ?? mosh
I think i can answer that one. I don't know
the precise meaning of the acronym BTR, but the one in the game is an earlier developement of a
Soviet AFV. There have been a whole series of
BTRs. A distinguishing feature is that they are
usually wheeled, rather than tracked. A modern example is the Russian (formerly Soviet) BTR 70.
These vehicles can transport troops and provide
a certain degree of fire support. It might be considered a hi-brid armored car.
--------------------------------------------------
...Oh, Bombing the Reich. Hmmm... Never mind.
Too many damned acronyms anyway. [ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Greg McCarty ]



skukko -> (9/5/2001 1:48:00 PM)

Yeah I knew BTR was armored vehicle for troops. Finns did have some of those earleir, thus I am not sure if they have them anymore... Bomb the Reich ?? nevermind... Kharans page has some oddities and bugs that were already corrected in 6.1. mosh



nexus -> (9/6/2001 3:43:00 AM)

yes. SPWAW 6.1 has some minor bugs...but they donīt effect gameplay very much IMHO. iīm now quite familiar with this version and must say itīs the best till now. my last 3 or 4 games were without flamethrower tanks or trucks on any side,and with quite good visibility this game is fun.



nexus -> (9/6/2001 3:56:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:

Ah this is good to know. I have 128 and I have never seen most of these "bugs".
i know have 384 mbīs. game runs fine...as all other games,too.



nexus -> (9/6/2001 4:23:00 AM)

[
I understand, because there is the game BTR, which is being fixed under similar circumstances. About 2 versions deep into bug fixes, one individual has been fixing it, and those fixes brought on a devastating bug from my perspective. The bug makes a total joke out of playing the Axis side, and it's EXTREMELY frustrating for people to diddely-daddley around with stupid nuances such as what squadron was where in the
pls. can u tell me what point do you mean??? i own BTR,too. but playing the allied side is more work than fun from my opinion. planning 20 or more raids per day is frustrating. and if u let the AI plan itīs getting more worse. u can mail me,too for this one,cause iīm realy interested as iīm playing a game on german side. i figured out ,that the me262 is almost useless in this game,the me410 with rockets blows away much more bombers than any other aircraft in this game. except the he219 as night fighter, i use them too in daytimes,but if they get cought by escorts they die in masses... thx.



Reiryc -> (9/6/2001 5:12:00 AM)

I for one happen to agree with fuerte. I decided to buy the mcna.....goal was to have fun and to help support matrix. I asked around to see if it had bugs that made it unplayable as I had some concerns based on others that had problems with it. I asked around and was pretty much told that the problems were with only a few people but that most were fine. This may be true and I don't doubt that. However, after spending the $25 plus shipping, I have not been able to get past the first battle. When I start up the second battle I crash to the desk top every time. I am hoping that the v7 will help fix this, but Im not sure it will. This has left me in a frustrating situation. Do I continue to support them with money, buying the new MC? Will it cause me the same problems? I too own a business. I have a payroll to meet, I pay over $8000 a month for rent, I pay over $2000 a month for electricity. I understand the needs out there to generate revenue. However, I also realize that I must provide my customers with a trouble free (as much as possible) service or they won't return. So what then should matrix do? They have decided to produce MC's in the hopes of generating money. Good idea. The MC that has come out isn't trouble free(as much as possible). Bad move. Now I realize this game is older code, therefore I would have really thought twice about whether or not to release any products that cost money when problems could not be solved. Instead they should have concentrated on releasing a new product that does not have unplayable bugs like I am experiencing. Reiryc



Zakhal -> (9/6/2001 5:34:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by skukko:
Yeah I knew BTR was armored vehicle for troops. Finns did have some of those earleir, thus I am not sure if they have them anymore...
mosh
We do have em still. Drove with one two years ago, atleast for som before it broked down at the highway...



Charles2222 -> (9/6/2001 8:33:00 AM)

nexus: I didn't want to change this into a BTR takeover thread, but since you ask.... I've played the Allies VERY rarely, but I don't think it occurs when playing that side. The problem has been what we've coined a 'freeze ray'. I'm not sure I've seen this when raids come out of the Mussolini's Lake, but they happen quite frequently out of the Channel. This occurs when an Allied fighter sweep targets a German airfield. If the German sends his interception on a head-on course with the Allied fighters, they will lock up, stuck, in one place. Neither will fire upon one another, and they will not seperate until one of them runs low on fuel, and then sometimes there will be a brief exchange and both squadrons will return to their bases. I've never played the latter stages of the game, so I don't know if some of the further endurance planes like the Mustang would continue on to their target or not, because as the early game stands, just about any Allied fighter that gets intercepted doesn't have enough fuel to go to it's target as well. Besides it looking so embarassingly stupid, sometimes the only way the Germans can intercept is head-on style, so it's not something that can be avoided and be played well. I also found that the Germans can guarantee their airfields are unblemished if they intercept every fighter raid. How can this be done reasonably, intercepting all those fighter raids? Simple, the German can send up one lousy fighter, assuming he does it head-on, and then he can deploy his freeze ray on the Allies. It even works with just one lousy plane! Oh well...



Paul Vebber -> (9/6/2001 10:00:00 PM)

It is frustrating to hear people complain that the MC has a bug that prevents them from enjoying it and, to offer a patch to fix it within a few weeks and then have only 34 people ask for the patch. The MC did not exhibit this bug for any of the playtesters and I guess it is good that only 34 of the over nearly 2000 purchasers have asked for the patch - indicating it is not very widespread. Though it seems that some who need it are not aware, or don't want to ask for it?!? What more can we do, but attempt to solve the problem, make a patch available, and assume that those for whom the game doesn't work, will avail themselves of it? You say we did not make the game 'trouble free as much as possible'. How can we know that people with certain configurations of computer hardware and software, that none of the testers have, will have a problem? And what more than offer a patch that has fixed the problem for EVERY person who has requested it? NO game out htere works perfectly on EVERY computer. GO to the support sites for Black and White a 7 figure budget game and you'll find folks complaining the video or sound or something is screwed up. How on earth can an outfit like us, working on a nearly non-existant budget create a game that works on everyones computer when the "big boys" on Mega-buck budgets can't? I frankly think that this phenomenon is eventually going to kill teh mainstream computer game industry - which is already getting massively in bed withthe game console dudes. Wargaming is stuck on PCs, and the reality is that NO game will run perfectly on 100% of computers. The C2 bug is a perfect example - the EXACT SAME code that runs perfectly on WIN 9X machines and follows MS standards, and works OUTSIDE THE MC, crashes 100% of the time under WIN NT/WIN2k running the MC. That is a problem with standards implementation across teh versions of Windows, that we have no control over, and can't fix (short of recoding the game in a more modern compiler, which is reason for Combat Leader). I can't come to your house to install it myself, but can I make you patch recipient # 35 ReiryC? If offering a patch for emergent problems isn;t good enough, then I guess your only choice is to wait for wargames on Xbox or Gamecube.



Larry Holt -> (9/6/2001 10:14:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
It is frustrating to hear people complain that the MC has a bug that prevents them from enjoying it and, to offer a patch to fix it within a few weeks and then have only 34 people ask for the patch.

Paul, I live in the world of software, bugs and patches. May I offer a suggestion? You have told us that only 34 people asked for the patch. This may be good but how many people bought the MC, couldn't run it, arent' on this forum to know that a patch is available and gave up on Matrix? Do you collect contact information by purchase? Can you send out a mass email to all who bought a MC (or other product) informing them of a FREE fix? I bought MCNA to support Matrix but to be truthful I am having so much fun with the basic game that I have not even finished one MCNA battle so I don't know if I have a bug problem or not. Perhaps someday I will be #35.



nexus -> (9/6/2001 10:34:00 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22:
[QB]nexus: I didn't want to change this into a BTR takeover thread, but since you ask....
okay,it a SPWAW thread,but........
this point u mention i know. itīs bad. sometimes the allied strafe your airfield and kill/damage much if your planes. there are 2 more points i hate: if u transfer air groups from rear area to frontline airfields u can go shure that the next day the allies target excactly that airfield. okay,perhaps they have much spies that can tell the allies something. but not every move u make as german can be noticed,thatīs just frustrating- secondly: u scramble a squadron to engage a raid. but the target raid quits or have already loads itīs bombs off. what do this stupid german piltos they fly after the outgoing raid,till their fule has gone. they ignore more nearer and more dangerous enemys. there is no possibilty to change the target of your interceptorīs while they fly. sad,could be a much better game.



Anonymous Sender -> (9/6/2001 10:56:00 PM)

First off, I can't comment as to whether or not SPWAW is getting worse; I have been soldiering on with v4.4 for some time now (long story, don't ask) and am waiting for MCLV & v7.0 (& v7.0 OOBs) with bells on! My question/suggestion: why not make just the patch available as a download? Give it its own blurb on the general "downloads" page and also have links to it on both the "products" page (right under the MCNA blurb) and the "MCNA downloads" page?



Paul Vebber -> (9/6/2001 11:09:00 PM)

Because its only a beta and not done yet. SInce none fo teh development team could recreate teh bug, and it was obviously happening, the only way to fix it was to get some of the folks who WERE having the problem. As it is we get enough grief for updating the game so much, we would never hear the end of it if we posted new patch files every other day for general consumption I've sent it to everyone who has asked for it and frankly the demand has been so meager, it has not paid to try do much more than that.



David Heath -> (9/6/2001 11:50:00 PM)

Hi Guys If you purchased Desert Fox you only could have gotten it here. So I find it very hard to think that someone with Desert Fox does not know about these forums. Also if you play from the main game menu it has a link to the forums and to the spwaw site. Also let consider the fact that if someone has a problem what would be the first place you would come back to....... that's right this web site. Here what I think it important this is a very bad bug BUT a VERY limited bug and we are working on it.



Nikademus -> (9/7/2001 4:00:00 AM)

I can understand the frustations of some of the players and i certainly dont suggest people blindingly worship a company regardless. But one must always keep things in perspective. can anyone recall a time previous when a company responded as extensively and graciously to player input as Matrix has? and on a "free" product no less? Not even in the golden days of SSI have i ever seen such consistant support and 'never' have i seen such a positive response to player feedback on non-bug related game aspects. Anyone remember SP-1, and SP-2? agree 100% with Fabs there, having been with this game from its inception in 95 i could never express the full length of gratitude i owe Matrix and the gang for taking a great wargaming concept and making it better than one could ever imagine it. I would say this even if i had experienced half of the "bugs" being reported here. (i've not, perhaps this is because i've only been playing solitaire for the most part and have a high end system with mega-RAM) heck the gang and Paul in particular deserve kudoes just for putting up with knuckleheads like me who author posts that might be considered flamatory on other boards (like my expressed frustration with the M4 armor stats....or the Tiger I mantlet question ;-) ) I'm impressed enough, satisfied enough that i would do what would have been unthinkable in the past. I'll buy the upcoming Matrix games, even the ones i'm leary about or dont feel i'll play in lieu of SP "just" to support the company and to express my gratitude. Hell i hav'nt even loaded up MegaCampaign #1 yet but i still bought it. Lost Victories will be on my card soon too. Thanks guys for making my #1 wargaming obcession even better. except you Wild Bill.....you make my life hell, and keep me from getting promoted each time i stagger back to the Start Lines after thinking i've got your number in the latest scenerio.....Munitions crash test dummy was not my goal in life!



Charles2222 -> (9/7/2001 4:44:00 AM)

I agree with Larry Holt. It would be a good idea to send it to everyone, but as Paul said it's only a beta. But then if it's only a beta, then perhaps that's why the turnout isn't so good; they're waiting for it to become more official. Perhaps after most people see how patches have been handled here, through official download means, whether someone says it's beta or not, they instinctively know it may cause them more trouble, than solve, so they ignore it and figure if there's really a problem it'll become part of a patch sooner or later. As Larry said, some of us haven't got far enough to know there's a problem, and if there isn't and you don't get far enough into it, the last thing you want to do is download something that might fix what the Matrix people aren't even seeing happening on their computers. In short (unintended pun), guinea pig volunteers aren't legion.



Reiryc -> (9/8/2001 10:05:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
It is frustrating to hear people complain that the MC has a bug that prevents them from enjoying it and, to offer a patch to fix it within a few weeks and then have only 34 people ask for the patch. The MC did not exhibit this bug for any of the playtesters and I guess it is good that only 34 of the over nearly 2000 purchasers have asked for the patch - indicating it is not very widespread. Though it seems that some who need it are not aware, or don't want to ask for it?!? What more can we do, but attempt to solve the problem, make a patch available, and assume that those for whom the game doesn't work, will avail themselves of it? You say we did not make the game 'trouble free as much as possible'. How can we know that people with certain configurations of computer hardware and software, that none of the testers have, will have a problem? And what more than offer a patch that has fixed the problem for EVERY person who has requested it? NO game out htere works perfectly on EVERY computer. GO to the support sites for Black and White a 7 figure budget game and you'll find folks complaining the video or sound or something is screwed up. How on earth can an outfit like us, working on a nearly non-existant budget create a game that works on everyones computer when the "big boys" on Mega-buck budgets can't? I frankly think that this phenomenon is eventually going to kill teh mainstream computer game industry - which is already getting massively in bed withthe game console dudes. Wargaming is stuck on PCs, and the reality is that NO game will run perfectly on 100% of computers. The C2 bug is a perfect example - the EXACT SAME code that runs perfectly on WIN 9X machines and follows MS standards, and works OUTSIDE THE MC, crashes 100% of the time under WIN NT/WIN2k running the MC. That is a problem with standards implementation across teh versions of Windows, that we have no control over, and can't fix (short of recoding the game in a more modern compiler, which is reason for Combat Leader). I can't come to your house to install it myself, but can I make you patch recipient # 35 ReiryC? If offering a patch for emergent problems isn;t good enough, then I guess your only choice is to wait for wargames on Xbox or Gamecube.
The reason I have not asked for the patch is because it is not a final version yet. Nothing personal, but I dont want to "beta" test the patch. I knew full and well that the patch existed, I am waiting for it to become finalized. If you have 34 people that already have the patch, then that should be a large enough pool from which to decide if the fixes implemented solve the problem. I dont think it should frustrate you that I await a finalized patch to be placed in the downloads section, not everyone is eager to try an unfinished product/patch/whatever. W/r/t wanting some perfect product, I am not asking for that. I understand bugs and issues come up. This is understandable to me. Things like problems with having extra moves for your units at the end of a turn, oobs that are somewhat off are reasonable and something I have not, nor would complain about. Problems that cause a game to crash to the DT is something altogether different in my mind. It would probably surprise you to know that I was a tech support manager for a software company(www.heliospos.com) for a year and a half before I opened my own business, but I do understand technical difficulties and problems with getting programs to work on everyones machines. I also believe it is the responsibility of the software maker to find the solution or to refund the money of the customers that are having difficulties in getting the program to work. I dont want a refund. I dont want to beta test the patch. I was disappointed that the game crashed to DT when trying to start the second battle. I chose to post that in a thread like this. I apologize if I offended, that was not my intent, however after spending my money on a product that does not work on my machine, I think it understandable that I am disappointed. Reiryc -- awaiting the finalized patch.



Randy -> (9/8/2001 11:09:00 AM)

I don't see how one can say that SPWAW is getting worse all the time. This game has come a long way from SPWAW v2 let alone from the original game back in 96. Also don't forget
most of this game has been for FREE. I know some of the problems can be frustrating, but look at the totality of the whole game. There is so much in this game, and so much that has been upgraded during the year that I find it hard to be so negative. When ever there has been a problem the Matrix guys have done their damnedest to really fix it. Nothing can be 100% bug free. Just look at the glitches in real life military systems that we replicate in our games. So, I'm really thrilled with the game to say the least. I think we should take note of the things we are happy with the game. Later, I may do a seperate post on this.



antarctic -> (9/8/2001 5:14:00 PM)

Sometimes, it's nice to take a step back and look at the issue again.
I must confess that I'm a new SPWAW user. The first time I ran SPWAW 5.0 I just went ****! this is sooooooo... cool!
I've been playing ever since, and I've never encountered any of the bugs mentioned in this forum. The bottom line is that so many people have dedicated so many hours to make SPWAW what it is, and made it free in the process. Lets just be thankful.



Zevious Zoquis -> (9/8/2001 11:08:00 PM)

I can't really comment on the progress/improvements from version 1 to 6.1 as I've just downloaded SPWAW for the first time. I played SP1 a bit back in the day but not nearly enough to uncover any bugs. However, I can comment on gaming in general. ALL games have bugs. I can't count the number of times I've dropped 50 or 60 bucks on a game only to find it bug-riddled to a degree where it was virtually unplayable (can u say Falcon 4.0?) I also can't count the number of times I've found a game to be completely playable and enjoyable and then gone to a board like this and come upon a post just like this that pointed out some bug or glitch that I'd never encountered in hours of playing the game. I agree with the fellow above who feels that this is going to have a really adverse effect on PC gaming. It is simply impossibly complicated trying to produce software for a nearly infinite array of different hardware configurations. In light of that fact, I simply find it unbelievable that something like SPWAW even exists. The hours of work that must go into a project like this just floors me and then to give it away for free (which of course is a copywrite thing but still)! For the few people who find the game so diminished by bugs and/or glitches there is a very simple solution as follows: STEP 1: Uninstall SPWAW ver6.1 STEP 2: Drive to your nearest game store and pay 30-60 dollars for any game you think might be better. STEP 3: Start waiting for the inevitable patches for your new game. Simple. In conclusion, there is nothing wrong with mentioning these issues as long as you keep in mind that these guys are in no way obligated to take any specific action if they choose not to. [Note: I'm not talking about the MC issues here. We all have the right to expect a certain level of service for products we've paid for. However, afaic, ALL patches are beta's whether they are called such or not. I don't think I've ever come upon a patch that resolved EVERY issue with a game]



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (9/9/2001 7:52:00 AM)

Hmmmm here is a great endorsement for Steel Panthers. My friend Tim, he fairly drips venom whenever the subject of war comes up. Hates wargames, hates people that like war,and generally is hard to be with if the subject arises. aaaaaaaand he plays Steel Panthers. Hey if Tim likes it you know its a damn good game.



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