Time to move on? (Full Version)

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Anonymous Sender -> Time to move on? (9/5/2001 9:24:00 PM)

I do so love SPWAW and I eagerly await MCLV and v7.x (and the v7 OOBs) and may buy the patched MCNA depending on how MCLV goes...but might it not be time to move on? Maybe start putting the weight of effort fully behind CL and CA? It seems to me that these are the "patches" everyone really wants, the true sequels with tighter, more stable code, more OOBs, more this and more that, etc. Revolutionary, not evolutionary,change to a game we all want to see get better and better. So why keep holding back by concentrating on the old guard? Of course, I say that already having ordered my old guard mega campaign



lnp4668 -> (9/5/2001 9:56:00 PM)

As Paul Vebber have stated previously, the effort that they put right now into MC and OOB patches are not infringing on the development of CL. Until the code for CL is solidified, there probably not much for the scenario designers and OOB researchers to do except twiddle their thumbs So why not put them to work Also the research that scenario/oob designers are doing could easily be transported into CL once that game is ready to go.



Resisti -> (9/5/2001 10:30:00 PM)

Yes,Anonymous,Inp4668 is right, but above that I think there is another thing:money.
Compliments don't feed you and your family, so what they get from the sale of MC's will be hopefully make for them possible keep on working and developing new games as CL/CA.



David Heath -> (9/5/2001 11:35:00 PM)

Hi Resisti could be more on target. Your purchases of Desert Fox and Lost Victories are very important and are the only way we will keep things going for our new wargames. Yes..... I know we should have stop working on Steel Panthers World At War a long time ago but we love the game and so do a lot of you and we wanted to add that one last feature or bug fix. Everyone has already been taken off of SPWaW and moved to other projects. We are working on v7.0 just trying to double check everything. I also like to thank everyone for there support.



Anonymous Sender -> (9/6/2001 12:55:00 AM)

Fair enough Federico and Dave, and points taken. Also, by no means was I saying that SPWAW "should" have been put out to pasture long ago (like I said, I love the game and thank you for it!), just that it really seems like now is the time to concentrate on CL/CA. Which apparantly you are doing. I'll be quiet now.



Paul Vebber -> (9/6/2001 1:17:00 AM)

David left out a "not" - you could could "NOT" be more on target... At the risk of sounding like a PBS schill, I'll reiterate that the speed with which our new games get done is in nearly direct proporiton to sales of the MC's. Those of you out there waiting for the "the good stuff" to buy are prolonging your own wait! There seems to be an attitude in much of the "Grognardy circles" that there are no "killer games" on your favorite era, then if I wait around, companies will get the idea and address my favortie era with a "killer game". Since there are no games that interest me, there is no reason to buy anything and I will just hold my breath until a game that suits me comes along. Nothing could be further from the truth. Such an attitude will result in a death spiral that will mean a lot of good games will never be produced. Frankly, sales of the MC's have been a serious disappointment, in many ways I think because folks are waiting for Combat Leader and Close Assault. The cash flow generated from selling MC's fuels the development of CL/CA, so taking a wait and see attitude measn CL/CA will take longer and have fewer features initially. We originally said we needed sales of 3500 of each of teh first two MC's to kick start CL/CA. Based on the response, we thought that would be no problem and we started work on CL/CA counting on the support to come in. Don't prove our faith in the wargaming community misplaced! While many of you have gone above and beyond in your support, we are no where near our goal and it will likely cause CL/CA to be delayed at least a few months. So in my best PBS Schill baritone...If you have enjoyed SP:WaW for free for the past years, and look forward to Combat Leader and Close Assault, then no time like the present to show your support with a purchase of one or more Mega-Campaigns! Or a Gift Certificate to be redeemed when yoour much awaited for game comes out! If you are having trouble with the store then try not loggin in and filling in the info manually. Those of you in the UK are unfortunately a victem of your countries many names. The bank we use abbreviates you UK for United Kingdom, while FEDEX calls you GB for Great Britain...the result is often no shipping option. We are working on a fix...but an example of the crazy bugs that gum up the works!! SO buy Mega Campaigns and see CA/CL faster. The more folks that do so, the faster you will see it!!! [ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]



nexus -> (9/6/2001 3:23:00 AM)

the prob is SPWAW is a very good game on that u can spend much time even without any MC.... but of course i contribute in buying a MC through rolandīs european order. buying alone is too expensive as mailing costs are too high from us to europe. ps: itīs not really bad,if the new games arrive 1 month or so later. i can wait. hope there wil be any european reseller (???)



Mark Ezra -> (9/6/2001 4:16:00 AM)

I bought The MCNA, have ordered the LVMC, and got a coffee mug! Just when I think "I've done my part", Paul comes up with a great new idea...a gift certificate. What a great way to spread the SPWAW news...give a gift copy to a friend. Perhaps somebody you PBEM other games with? Make 'em an offer they can't refuse...Give them the game but make them PBEM with you.



bradmbrown -> (9/6/2001 4:26:00 AM)

Promises ain't worth anything. That said, I am so broke I am spending bills money on fast interent access. It's what I do when my gainfully employeed buddies are out, well, doing other things. I feel terrible. Like I been tinkling the coins in the collection plate at church so my nieghbours will think I put something in. Just my luck, I crawl outta the bush with a pocket full of coins and I log onto the net and get 404 errors when I look for Matrix. If that happens, I am gonna stick my 56K modem back, start using my Freenet account again, die my hair orange and tattoo the word "JERK" on my forehead.



pops -> (9/6/2001 7:46:00 AM)

COME ON AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!.....no one else on the planet can afford to order games from the US Mail so buy ten each AND LOVE EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!!!!!



parusski -> (9/6/2001 8:31:00 AM)

TIME TO MOVE ON. Move on my A**. I just checked my closet. I have 57 different games I have accumulated over the years. One game and one game only has kept my attention for more than a few short(very) weeks. That game is SPWAW. I play the game every single day. I mean EVERY DAY. The only games ever to come close were: Civilization, CivII, Age of Empires, Sim City 1,2,3 and Warcraft. That's it-5 of 57 games. And only Civ II comes even close to SPWAW's ability to continue to draw a player back in. So no moving on as far as I am concerned. Dasvadanya



parusski -> (9/6/2001 8:35:00 AM)

TIME TO MOVE ON. Move on my A**. I just checked my closet. I have 57 different games I have accumulated over the years. One game and one game only has kept my attention for more than a few short(very) weeks. That game is SPWAW. I play the game every single day. I mean EVERY DAY. The only games ever to come close were: Civilization, CivII, Age of Empires, Sim City 1,2,3 and Warcraft. That's it-5 of 57 games. And only Civ II comes even close to SPWAW's ability to continue to draw a player back in. So no moving on as far as I am concerned. Dasvadanya



Alby -> (9/6/2001 9:41:00 AM)

I think once the new MC starts shipping, many more people will order, myself included.
I became gunshy on the "pre-ordering" deal from the last experience. Not bashing anyone, just an explanation as to why maybe the MCs arent Going as fast as they were predicted to go.Im there for you though!
I for one am very happy that matrix has kept working on SPWAW until now, Its a great game and fixing the few small oob and bug problems is ok in my book!! [ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Alby ]



DoubleDeuce -> (9/6/2001 9:49:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by parusski:
TIME TO MOVE ON. Move on my A**. I just checked my closet. I have 57 different games I have accumulated over the years.
I am not far from that myself. Since my first copy of SP1, SP is the only series to stay on my hard drive. Now of that series, only SPWAW resides on my hard drive and has been there for a year at least. Even after CL/CA I bet money I will still find room for it. It is a classic.



pops -> (9/6/2001 11:30:00 AM)

..yup can't see tiring of SPWAW for a long time even if I enjoy CL/CA nearly as much.....it will still take those games a long time to get the same depth...



AmmoSgt -> (9/6/2001 11:57:00 AM)

I've been a bit to ill to get online much ..but what does get me out of bed more often than not is SPWAW .. and I'll buy an extra MCLV when they start shipping, even though i mostly play as Americans , so the MC's aren't really important to me ..and i will buy CL/CA whatever when it comes out ..but I do this to keep Matrix going so they can keep perfecting SPWAW... and maybe some day get a Modern version of the SP series out ....I know you guys want to make some money .. but geeze look at the forums ..look at the other gamer sites .. It's SPWAW thats the draw..not other games, newer games, fancier games ... they may in time develope a following and i hope they do ... but SPWAW is the draw and not because it is free ...



Randy -> (9/6/2001 1:14:00 PM)

We should have a buying competition between the US and the rest of the world to boost the sale of the games!!!! Unfortunately those in Europe (and I would assume Asia also) have very high shipping rates, and I don't know how/what to award the winner. Just an idea.



Anonymous Sender -> (9/6/2001 7:30:00 PM)

Goodness gracious me. I never meant to imply that we should all stop playing SPWAW or stop supporting the boys (and girls? ) at Matrix; I was just saying that I thought the Matrix crew should maybe concentrate fully on CL/CA and their other upcoming efforts now that SPWAW has been nipped and tucked all the way up to v7.0.
Speaking of supporting Matrix, I for one would be happy to have DLed a demo of SPWAW and then paid a registration fee for the whole shebang. Maybe Matrix should consider that now? Or are there copyright conflicts with whatevers left of SSI's legal department?
Bottom line, I love SP (and I have ever since I got SP1 way back in the day) and I am fully behind Matrix's new efforts now. I eagerly await my copy of MCLV, I may yet buy MCNA, and I am chomping at the bit to foist my hard earned cash money upon the Matrix gang for WiP, CL, STUN2 and whatever else they come up with in the future that tickles my fancy. So there.



parusski -> (9/6/2001 7:54:00 PM)

Anonymous Sender you are just fine with us. We are all such fanatics that we just get going very easily. Your points are all well made and understood. Just defending my favorite game. And making an issue of how many games that sale for $40 or $50 and have a play life of a week or two. See ya.



Larry Holt -> (9/6/2001 10:25:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:

Those of you out there waiting for the "the good stuff" to buy are prolonging your own wait!
... Frankly, sales of the MC's have been a serious disappointment, in many ways I think because folks are waiting for Combat Leader and Close Assault. The cash flow generated from selling MC's fuels the development of CL/CA, so taking a wait and see attitude measn CL/CA will take longer and have fewer features initially.
...

OOPS, Since MCLV was not shipping I had not yet placed my order, figuring that since Matrix is not going to charge me (& thus not get paid) until it ships. SORRY! I have ordered it now & gotten a hat & mug to make up for my lazyness in not ordering before. I did have extreme problems with the store. I could not login & my screen was blank when I wanted to process after selecting my products. I am behind a firewall & that may have been part of the problem. I reverted to the 800 # & I found the young lady at the "Matrix Games Order Department" very helpful (ah to be 20 years younger and to have my hair back) but she wanted my login ID & password and it didn't work for her any better than it did for me. I did get an email confirming my order so alls well that ends well.



Paul Vebber -> (9/6/2001 10:39:00 PM)

The login and password in teh store occasionally burps for reasons we are trying to figure out, if you have problems, just hit the button to proceed without logging in. All teh log in does is save you info so you don;t have to enter it in everytime you want to buy something. So far nobody has reported a problem withthe manual method, and redoing a new registration, fixes the login problem. FOr some reasons one of the updates we did madethe form incompatible with some of the stored regisitrations...you gotta love this stuff, its always sumpthin'



Paul Vebber -> (9/6/2001 10:56:00 PM)

COmbat Leader is our attempt to start from a clean sheet and do a tactical game that SP:WaW players will be very familiar with, but will not have a lot fo the limitations in it (like an 11 year old compiler) that are teh root of teh remaining problems with SP:WaW. We just can't fix SP:WaW the way we want, short of "gut and paste" of major systems, 'like spotting and artillery) and we have to be able to charge for teh product to make that level of change. So we are basically the idea of a hex based, squad and single tank, top down display IGO-UGO game and "doing it right" based on all the input we have gotten over the years. Teh first module will be a small step - we figure 3-4 years to get everything we want into teh game, so we are working on a "spiral developmet cycle" You get a firm foundation established, you get it out to teh users, and you get feedback for the next module. The problems are, the first module doesn't have "everything" (in fact may be a step backward form some points of view) so some people are going to wait for "the end" to get "everything. That is bad because if the initial two modules don't sell, the last ones will never get made, and players playing the game are a significant source of likes and dislikes about desing decisions and the game direction. We have a firm direction we want the game to go, this will not be "game design by poll" but it has flexibility to accomodate things the few of us desingn/developers may not have thought of. We have to get a game that uses a modern compiler, libaries, etc that we own, to go the "next step". Will this new game be SP:WaW ver 8? EMPAHTICALLY NOT!! What it will be is a whole lot of things that SP:WaW CAN'T be becasue of the limitations of the design. But it has to start of slow, look at how long it has taken us to go from SP:WaW v1 to V7! So in many ways we are starting over, but with a broader foundation that will allow us to build a much better game out of! If you have liked what we have done with SP:WaW, you will not be disappointed!



Anonymous Sender -> (9/6/2001 11:05:00 PM)

Thanks Paul, that was my whole point to begin with



Charles2222 -> (9/7/2001 4:25:00 AM)

Paul Vebber: See if you can answer this. Do you think that CL will work as well as SPWAW 1.0, albeit just the one front?



color -> (9/7/2001 4:49:00 AM)

Paul I just love your ideas on the development of CL. I agree completely that redoing the game from scratch with the experiences you already have and taking advantage of never technology can have great promises. Count me in as a customer from the very first module! Color



Paul Vebber -> (9/7/2001 10:58:00 PM)

Charles: it will "work" better. The whole point is to eliminate the underlying causes of many of the remaining bugs and "architecture limitations". What it won't have is all the features that the current SP:WaW has, or I should say it will have different features. So you may not have paratroops and infiltrating spec ops right out of the box, or naval units beyond assault boats and barges to cross rivers. Or level bombers or naval guns. Things like that. Air strikes may be more abstract. You may not have a "campaign generator" or "user created campaigns" in the initial module. We are focusing initially on a better battle generator and tools for user created scenarios. The "long campaign" is a favorite that will be given attention, but may not have all the capability we want. Thats not to say those things definately WON'T be there, but that how much gets added tot eh "basic" infantry, tanks, arty mix remains to be seen. We are focusing on infantry, tanks and arty and making sure that aspect of the game is solid. Battle generator, scenario editor, OOB's and long campaign are the "big" things we think players like, but we will not have all the bells and whistles working in the initial game. Data elements in OOBs may not all be enabled yet, not all terrain types may be in use, a limited number of heights etc. As we work with the alpha version and get ready to go into beta, playtesters will be recruited, and we eill let you know through them, how things are going and what things will get in the "final version" of "module one". IF a feature causes bugs, we will not include it. The goal is to create a bug free foundation that allows players to play basic combined arms scenarios on the Eastern Front. When we have that we will release module 1. Hopefully that long winded answer gets to your point?



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