To catch a train (Full Version)

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Dan Greaves -> To catch a train (9/20/2001 12:13:00 AM)

I've just restarted the MCNA again and decided to do the alternate battle To catch a train and it is driveing me mad I can destroy the train but then the tanks destroy most of my force, I'm haveing 4 or 5 Pziiis on one matilda and getting killeed.Has anyone got any ideas? because it is driving me out of my mind. Has anyone else found this senario stupidly difficult?



Grumble -> (9/20/2001 12:18:00 AM)

Try keeping your SOF teams back, close to the exit hexes. They can assault the vehicles and disable them. Your PzIVs have a small chance of destroying the vehicles close up and from the rear-another option for you. Worst case, if you're getting hammered, they can fire smoke and assist in your escape.
Also, the Matilda's crew morale doesn't seem to be set too high IMHO. Keep firing at them, you'll eventually de-arm/immobilize them, and the crews will bail. Kill the crews, kill the vehicle.



color -> (9/20/2001 1:11:00 AM)

Keeping the assault teams around the exit hex is the key to destroying those matildas. Which brings up another subject: When assaulting a tank the infantry usually have a small chance of destroying it. But once they have assaulted it once and still have shots left for the satchel charge, firing upon the tank with the satchel charge usually destroys it. Does anybody else find this strange. I would suppose the assault (since it is harder to obtain) should have a bigger chance of destroying the tank. Maybe infantry assaulting with satchel charges and FTs should have a higher porcentaje chance? Or the hit porcentage for the satchel charge should be less? BTW, don't forget to leave your units ON top of the exit hex in the middle of the map at the end of your turn for them to count as exited for VPs.
I was mightly frustrated with this scenario before someone told me I actually have to leave the units on a hex in the middle of the map for them to leave the map . . . Color



Dan Greaves -> (9/20/2001 7:40:00 AM)

Thanks for the advice, this senario has got me very wound up. What were they thinking of when they wrote it, the senario is verging on impossable , even if you just lose a couple af tanks you get a draw. I would like to see the person who wrote it play it and finish. I cheated and saved with out that I would say that it is so hard that it takes the fun out of it



john g -> (9/20/2001 8:42:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Death:
Thanks for the advice, this senario has got me very wound up. What were they thinking of when they wrote it, the senario is verging on impossable , even if you just lose a couple af tanks you get a draw. I would like to see the person who wrote it play it and finish. I cheated and saved with out that I would say that it is so hard that it takes the fun out of it
You might wait until you play a little better before you tackle some campaingns like Arras-hard version. That one makes this battle seem easy. Hurting in the H is another one that can be nasty if you aren't careful how you play.
thanks, John.



Dan Greaves -> (9/20/2001 8:49:00 AM)

well I finished it and only lost a sdkf222 and the mg 34 squad and few other squads slightly damaged . I destroyed the train fuel dump the command hut and every thing in the compound, the only things left were the two bunkers next to the minefield and the score was 1576 to 1530 a draw!!!!! ****** up game.



Paul Vebber -> (9/20/2001 10:34:00 AM)

Sounds like you didn't return your troops to teh Exit hexes?



skukko -> (9/20/2001 12:38:00 PM)

If I remember right, key thing was to exit your troops away from the batllefield. Remember that it seems that AI gets points of the units that you leave on the map when battle ends. Draw? erhmm, - is there any other results ? where can I download them ? mosh



Grumble -> (9/20/2001 11:11:00 PM)

Agreed. Played twice got a decisive both times (had "yugo bug").
I guess maybe folks are looking at this as a convention op, rather than the spec op it REALLY IS. What this means is, ingress to target, speed and violence on target, and egress are all keys to success. IMHO, this scenario demonstrates those elements well.
Ingress: Clock's running, and your opord says to avoid victory hexes (gaining ground). Stay focused on your objectives, in other words...
Speed on Target: The TARGET is the train and deports NOT the defenders. If you waste turns shooting up the Brits, (and losing troops)you're not going to have sufficient time to get everything and...
Egress: Need to get ALL your guys, crews included, to one of the exit hexes (need to be ON the hex, passing through it won't work), otherwise at endgame the AI gets the points.



Dan Greaves -> (9/21/2001 12:13:00 AM)

I left via the exit hex at the top of the screen.



Dan Bozza -> (9/21/2001 12:22:00 AM)

I posted regarding this problem a few weeks ago - it seems the Brit VH values are set too high, or the value of the destroyed train are too low to get higher than a draw with all forces intact and properly exited.



color -> (9/21/2001 1:45:00 AM)

Dan, I have the impression you made the same mistake that I did. If you want to win, your units have to leave the map not at an edge, but by being ON TOP of the German Exit VP Hex in the MIDDLE of the map. This hex is on the road, close to the barbed wire, southeast of where your units starts.
Yup, that's closer to the enemy lines than where you start.
Rather strange and a little abstract but this is the way it is. The units have to be on the top of the hex at the end of your turn. Upon ending your turn you will get a message saying something like 'GE Unit XXX exited for YYY VPs'.
Any other message, or the units exiting before you hit the end turn button, means the units where not exited the correct way. If you exit the units off any other edge or retreat hex, you won't get any VP's for exiting them. Once you get this right: breeze in, suppress & ignore enemy units, move the tanks forward to blast train, tent and supply dumps, leave others behind to cover retreat and mop up defenders in the retreat lane, and then exit the units the way describe above, the scenario is rather easy to win. You don't even have to knock out those Matildas, just suppress them and bypass them. I tried it like 4 or 5 times. Color



Dan Bozza -> (9/21/2001 2:15:00 AM)

Yes, there are two exit hexes, and I recieved the VP message for exiting like you stated. However, after destroying the entire train, and exiting my force, I was still getting a draw. I played several times, once trying to withdraw as early as possible while ignoring the VH's, and again trying to hold the VH's while destroying the enemy, and exiting at the last moment. (That didn't work because whatever Brit forces remained took back the VH's, but I still got a draw even with the Brit Force morale broken.) The briefing plainly states VH's are of little or no consequence - only the train matters. My conclusion was the VP's for the VHexes were too high, and/or the VP's for the train were too low, unless the scenario was specifically designed to prevent anything higher than a draw. (But I really doubt that)



john g -> (9/21/2001 2:38:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Boz:
Yes, there are two exit hexes, and I recieved the VP message for exiting like you stated. However, after destroying the entire train, and exiting my force, I was still getting a draw. I played several times, once trying to withdraw as early as possible while ignoring the VH's, and again trying to hold the VH's while destroying the enemy, and exiting at the last moment. (That didn't work because whatever Brit forces remained took back the VH's, but I still got a draw even with the Brit Force morale broken.) The briefing plainly states VH's are of little or no consequence - only the train matters. My conclusion was the VP's for the VHexes were too high, and/or the VP's for the train were too low, unless the scenario was specifically designed to prevent anything higher than a draw. (But I really doubt that)
If you kill the train and exit everyone you should get nearly 12000 points. The vic hexes are only worth about 500 points, you can let the ai kill several vehicles before you are out of decisive range, they start with 25% of your force as victory points so you are working uphill from there. Any troops of theirs that you kill are just icing on the cake. If you just force the crew of each train car to abandon, and don't move an infantry to kill the unmanned car it doesn't count for being destroyed. For some reason the AC's kill the train cars better than the PZ III's, the tanks seem to force abandonment more.
thanks, John.



Dan Bozza -> (9/21/2001 3:56:00 AM)

I never bothered with the crews, but I made sure those cars were good and DEAD! I'll have to replay it and see what happens.



color -> (9/21/2001 4:54:00 AM)

When you move an infantry unit on top of an abandonded vehicle, do you get any message acknowleding that the vehicle is destroyed, like a graphic/sound reproduction or some kind of text in the message display? I have never seen it been done it, even though I have had infantry units in same hex as abandonded vehicles,so I am curious if the destruction of the vehicle is actually transmitted to the player in some way or another. Color



john g -> (9/21/2001 5:55:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Color:
When you move an infantry unit on top of an abandonded vehicle, do you get any message acknowleding that the vehicle is destroyed, like a graphic/sound reproduction or some kind of text in the message display? I have never seen it been done it, even though I have had infantry units in same hex as abandonded vehicles,so I am curious if the destruction of the vehicle is actually transmitted to the player in some way or another. Color
The only thing I notice is that instead of being off center in the hex due to mutiple units being there, the infantry then moves to the center of the hex, showing that they are the only ones there.
thanks, John.



Drex -> (9/22/2001 8:52:00 AM)

The key to winning "To catch a train" is to move recon units in on the south road, suppress the infantry and move the tanks in. I used only 3 PZiiis and destroyed the train, using some infantry to keep the enemy infantry away. the rest of my force went straight to the exit hexes(either one). My three tanks didn't make it out but they were my only casualties and I got a decisive victory.



Wild Bill -> (9/23/2001 1:03:00 PM)

Okay Dan, you wanted to meet the man who did this one. Look in the lower right hand corner of every map and you'll find the author who did it. Who did it? well, I did, of course. No one ever said war is easy, now did they John G hit the nail on the hit. German victory is determined by two major items. You MUST destroy that train and (2) you must exit before the game ends. Of course, losses should be kept to a minimum. THey hurt you. THe two things that will rob you of victory are what I mentioned above. Get in, and get out. If not, you will be overpowered. It is a raid. The key to success includes speed, good planning and getting out. Once those Matildas really get moving, kiss victory a sad goodbye. If you still want to meet, I suggest bubble gum at one pace Wild Bill [ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]



Mark Ezra -> (9/23/2001 10:46:00 PM)

I played this scen just yesterday. I got a Dec Vic. and a medal! There is nothing wrong with the scen. In playing Mega Campaigns it is important to read the "orders" you receive. As you played this scen you shot up everything you could...normally a good thing. This scen want's you to do just two things: Blow up the entire train and get the hell out. You are given plenty of units to get the train and hold the exit hex. I was in and out by turn 7, lost a tank to arty fire and one immobilzed ( crews escaped). I suggest you try again...don't get side-tracked with this or that target unless it threatens your exit. Take assault troops, one platoon of pz3 and the pz4's only. Start exiting the pz1 and AC ASAP. Perhaps use just one exit hex (I used the south exit hex to both attack and exit). This and your speed will earn you a Dec Vic, Rommel's praise and a pretty cool medal.



Dan Bozza -> (9/25/2001 4:02:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
Okay Dan, you wanted to meet the man who did this one. Look in the lower right hand corner of every map and you'll find the author who did it. Who did it? well, I did, of course. No one ever said war is easy, now did they John G hit the nail on the hit. German victory is determined by two major items. You MUST destroy that train and (2) you must exit before the game ends. Of course, losses should be kept to a minimum. THey hurt you. THe two things that will rob you of victory are what I mentioned above. Get in, and get out. If not, you will be overpowered. It is a raid. The key to success includes speed, good planning and getting out. Once those Matildas really get moving, kiss victory a sad goodbye. If you still want to meet, I suggest bubble gum at one pace Wild Bill [ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]
I knew you were the one, of course, but I didn't want to stand up and draw your fire. Seems you hit me while I was lying prone behind a hedgerow!



Dan Greaves -> (9/25/2001 5:53:00 AM)

I'm sorry if I upset anyone but,I went through the senario several times cheat to test it. In the end I only lost one squad, the mg34,and one sdkf 222 through a breakdown,destroyed all of the train,all squads within the compound and exited via the correct hexes and got a draw with a strangely low score, part if not all of the problem was the fact that I installed V7.11 without re-starting. Thankyou to everyone who pointed me in the right direction.I kept going back to a save that I had to try and do better but could not get anything better than a draw-- Very frustrating So sorry Bill if I was fed up with the senario.



Wild Bill -> (9/25/2001 9:28:00 AM)

No,no, Dan. I was joking with you. I was not upset at all. I certainly understand the frustration you've felt. I've felt it dozens of times myself. So no offense taken at all. Anytimt you have a problem, post it. Or write me. I'll be happy to help as will the rest of these fine gamers on this site. Wild Bill



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