Some questions on aircraft (Somewhat long) (Full Version)

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mcbradley -> Some questions on aircraft (Somewhat long) (9/28/2001 5:35:00 AM)

I have some questions about aircraft targeting in SPWAW 6.1. This came up last night when I ordered three Stukas to attack three separate hexes where I had determined that anti-tank guns were located, though as yet unseen. When the Stukas came onto the screen to start their attack run, they headed for the target hex, then veered off to attack hexes that had other targets (two trucks in each hex loaded with troops). That means the immediate threat to me, the anti-tank guns which were indeed there, were left to keep picking off my armor. I am assuming (somebody correct me if I’m wrong) that the aircraft are programmed to attack targets of “greatest value” within a certain radius of the targeted hex. If this assumption is correct, is there a specific radius from the target hex that aircraft are free to select the “highest value” target? If yes, is there a way to adjust the radius value? If not, would it be possible to create an option that would allow us to set that radius? In this same scenario, I used one of my available Stukas early to attack a hex in the center of the enemy territory as just sort of a recon mission to see what was there. I didn’t really care what it attacked, so the radius could have been 3 or 4 or 6 or whatever hexes from the target hex. As it turned out, the targeted hex had two trucks with troops, so the mission was not a waste. Later, though, I wanted those planes to specifically take out the AT guns. I would have liked that radius to be 0 so that the planes would not veer off to attack something that, although of greater point value, was not an immediate threat. Any thoughts, hints, suggestions, ideas for “forcing” the aircraft to attack only the targeted hex? P.S. Sincere best wishes to Wild Bill on his announced retirement!!! Thanks, O. Bradley



Wild Bill -> (9/28/2001 9:24:00 AM)

I'm not even going to assume that the "O" stands for Omar. I'd surely be wrong...but who knows? Thanks, my friend. I'm not a programmer and Michael Wood would best answer this one. I will say from playing experience that vehicles always seem to take precedent over all other targets. Even if you choose infantry, the aircraft, if it sees a tank (or sometimes a Jeep) will go after it instead. Its as if the pilot made his own decisioin, right or wrong. We talked often about modifying this in the code but so many other things took precedence that it was not possible (as yet - G). I've often wanted to court-martial a few of these sky-jockies. I've got a bunker that needs hitting bad, and he chases a 2 1/2 ton truck. ARGH! Michael or Paul Vebber would have more to add to this I am sure. Wild Bill



Alexandra -> (9/28/2001 9:38:00 AM)

It can work for you, too, though. I was playing a scen the other day, as the Germans vs the Americans. The US forces are putting pressure on my center, led by a Sherman. I have no armor in the area, and fear a collapse. The fears increase as a P-51 comes in - and I'm expecting my infanry to get wiped - and the P-51 zooms past them and wastes the Sherman! And my infantry then proceeded to wipe up his and the threat ended Alex



Wild Bill -> (9/28/2001 11:42:00 AM)

You are right, Stargirl. These aviators are "tank-hungry," any tank, just kill a tank ARGH Wild Bill



Redleg -> (9/28/2001 12:45:00 PM)

Yes, aircraft like trucks, armor & artillery a lot. It has always been that way back to SP3. Take a truck, get it moving fast by driving back and forth so it will show up good. Leave it in the open or on a hilltop..... next turn, get it up to speed again and repeat. Pretty decent (and gamey) air defense. Move a 50mm mortar into the open behind the lines and it will often draw air strikes. I was wondering if "Ammo Carrier" meant something to the AI insofaras aircraft. So I renamed a bunch of trucks "Ammo Carrier" and renamed all of the ammo trucks to things like Company Mess, Ambulance, Supplies etc to see what would happen. It doesn't appear that the AI cues off of the label. I couldn't see any difference. Sometimes, a moving truck that is seen by the AI but out of range will draw artillery fire as well.



skukko -> (9/28/2001 1:41:00 PM)

After thinking this pilot -thing I've found some sort of solution: ACs attack against something that 1: can't shoot back; 2: is 99% kill for pilot. Tanks don't fit in this... On the other hand taking out movement of the infantry is important as well amputating guns by shooting their trucks. This is same in op-fire. If infantry looses its vehicles they will be in the area still when AI drops barrage to there. I have scenario where is sovjets airraid against german armored column. While testing it I noted that those two Tigers did draw fire more than anything else. Tigers didn't get much hurted, but then came that Lagg-3, slowly and seen from very far, it dived in after panzer IIIn and had lots of AA-fire from the ground. It did get hits but it bombed Pz to history with its 100kg bombs. After some time it came back, did get hits from every weapon that could shoot, dropped another two bombg in the middle of the germans; Tiger loosed its tracks. So they can do their job pretty well sometimes. I would like to know that is there in-coded differences between fighters and fighterbombers, IE Mustang versus Sturhmovik ? I think that even ME-109 with one bomb and its MGs is usefull. mosh



Anonymous Sender -> (9/28/2001 11:59:00 PM)

I tend to avoid AC all together; since they are essentially 'airbore artillery" and have this nasty habit of veering off target for their own greater glory, why not just use the real deal? Offboard Artillery is the god of war, boys and girls



john g -> (9/29/2001 12:37:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Anonymous Sender:
I tend to avoid AC all together; since they are essentially 'airbore artillery" and have this nasty habit of veering off target for their own greater glory, why not just use the real deal? Offboard Artillery is the god of war, boys and girls
And then some of us avoid OB arty as well. Give me a unit on the map that direct fires against targets. No out of contact, no counterbattery, no missing the target and hitting friendly troops. Honestly the people who complain that aircraft don't do what they want seem to forget that there is a pilot there who is using his eyes and brain to optimize the strike. If all you need is an area clobbered, ob arty does just fine lobbing dumb shells in the direction you specify. Use aircraft when you need a little extra help in finding targets. Once you know where the targets are, use the very much cheaper ob arty.
thanks, John.



Bing -> (9/29/2001 2:25:00 AM)

Git yerself an FO with minimum 80 Arty rating and you'll have a lot less problem with CAS. My Typhoons go after them Tigers like doggie dinner. The vehicle thing can be used to lure enemy CAS right down the barrels of your AA units. Prior to the enemy turn, you will usually have an idea of the axis of attack for their CAS. Put an old jeep or truck out in the open, right in line with the Duster or Quad 50 or whatever you got. Bingo, the bogie will fly straight at you. I got lotsa enemy aircraft that way, lots and lots of them - course I always make sure my AA units have an unobstructed field of fire, too. Should this be legal? I've believed for a long time, as do many professional military people, that anything you use in an armed conflict is acceptable, stopping short of outright atrocity. Elesewhere, someone has said the purpose of minefields in WW2 was not to cause casualties. I say, talk to a German who fought during WW2 and see what he says. You blow'em up and blow'em apart any damn way that works. That is the way wars are won. Happy shooting, Bing



Khan7 -> (9/29/2001 8:03:00 AM)

Of course the "this is war!" argument doesn't hold the same weight for a SIMULATION, as obviously the simulation isn't real war, and it's purpose is to be a fun SIMULATION (in this case of real events), so what you CAN do to win will sometimes defer to the way things should be to give more fun and to offer a better simulation. You have no idea how many little buggy quirks I had figured out in SP3 that I could use to outrageous advantage. I admit I used them, but I am glad that the vast majority of them were removed with SPWAW (though the direct fire bombardment with flamethrowers, the King of SP3 WW2 tactics, still has some questionable effect..). Matt



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