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Yet it didnt deter them from planning an air-attack/surface-bombardment combo.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

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Yet it didnt deter them from planning an air-attack/surface-bombardment combo.

Yep. And an air-surface attack is not at all the same cat as a surface attack only. One of plan suppresses any land based air before the bombardment task force is at risk from air attack. The other does not.

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ORIGINAL: byron13
Rendova - you sneaky little ba$tard - that's a pretty nifty tactic you came up with!! We'll have house rules about that when we play!

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ORIGINAL: Rendova

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ORIGINAL: Mogami

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ORIGINAL: Rendova

Ok so not only to you get to find out were the enemy CV's are but you get to find out BEFORE ANY contact with him is made only because HE has seen you.... ummm ok [sm=crazy.gif]

Hi, I consider the result to be most important. No CV versus CV strike was ever launched that did not produce a counter strike. Now there will still be cases where one side pounds the other because a player has set the airgroups to missions other then naval strike.
However unlike historic Midway in WITP the IJN CV would not have the morning airfield strike on board when the USN strike arrived. (all am strikes are in the air together and all land during the recover aircraft phase.) It's not perfect but we are using a machine and things have to have a set order. People tend to over analyze how the program works and what choice of phrases are used during combat reporting. WITP is an operational level game not a tactical combat game. It is important that the program preform as intended but for me I don't worry about how many BB are hit by torpedos during the PH strike only that a reasonably correct number of BB are damaged to reasonably correct levels with the Japanese strike losing close to historical numbers. WITP does this so I do
not stay awake at night trying to figure out how to sneak up undetected on enemy TF of 6 CV and get in a suprise strike. (Ok leave 6 CV in a port where I can see them and see what happens. But to do this I would need to change my airgroups from Naval Attack to Port Attack.........)

I understand its a compromise I do really do understand how hard it must be to write code for all these situations, but my only real concern is this..In reality the strike force had to be reduced a bit because some of the attack planes were used at search aircraft, you never really could launch 36 SBD and 15 TBD at once because some of these aircraft were used as scouts, so the tatic that I will take away from this is to leave Naval search settings to 0 for all my SBD's I'll let him find me with 25% of his Vals then I'll pound him with 100% of my SBD's while I only have to fend off 75% of his Vals (plus of coruse any A6M that tag along). That was my concern, you actually get rewarded for not searching because you get a larger strike force.

Thanks again for all the explainations you give ever one here[&o]

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Yep, but I believe you also dismissed the air-surface attack combo atlernative that was proposed.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

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A bombardment TF makes a perfectly timed run-in with a substantial number of ships, avoiding detection under cover of darkness and not suffering aerial attack. The following AM a CV based strike arrives perfectly timed to suppress the airbase and cover the withdrawal of the bombardment TF. I think this plan is highly implausible for a variety of reasons, the most important of which is the dependence on perfect timing of the two combat elements, the movement and arrival of the bombardment group and the arrival of the CV based planes.

I do not think precision timming is crucial. It was with the USN mandate raids because they wanted to bombard by daylight. Any delay of the air attack could have been critical. I think the IJN plan would have been better served starting their bombardment prior to sunrise it might even continue until the dawn air strike showed up. A night attack would stand a better chance of catching recon and attack a/c on the ground. As far as being attacked by a/c at night there isnt much evidence to suggest even if the TF had been discovered on its run in, that such an attack would have been very effective

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In the greater context of the discussion, this plan also puts the IJN CVs in the historical position of the IJN strike force. Simulatasking too many jobs at once, and therefore highly extra vulnerable to enemy CVs that might be operating in the area. It MIGHT work, but the plan still seems error intolerant and still overtasks Kido Butai.

In this context. It was pretty evident even from the IJN "rigged" wargamming that it was absolutely critical to shut down Midway airbase with ONE "initial" attack. A sober anaylsis would make the chance of this without the Sho & Zui very slim. A heavy bombardment would at least help supplement the loss of the 2 CVs and would increase the chance that only one air strike would be neccessary. It wasnt so much the initial strike that caused all the problems it was the need subsequent air strikes that caused problems in both the gaming and real life . For these reasons I feel that a 4 CV plan supplemented by bombardment, although not better than a 6 CV plan, stood a better chance than the historical 4 CV alone.

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As a matter of curiousity I wonder how many Japanese BBs could have realistically attempted such a run-in anyhow? The Kongo class surely, but the others?

IMO, just the Kongos, plus some CAs and DDs speed is critical and the Yamato and the Nagatos are just not fast enough. Besides the IJN would never have risked them.