AT gun in buildings? (Full Version)

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John Galt -> AT gun in buildings? (10/26/2001 3:39:00 AM)

Is there any way to get an AT gun inside a building besides deploying one there? Will the building collapse if I enter that hex with a halftrack?



lnp4668 -> (10/26/2001 4:07:00 AM)

AT who have at least 1 movement point could move into building if they are next to it. However, a halftrack will definitely crash the building.



john g -> (10/26/2001 4:30:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by John Galt:
Is there any way to get an AT gun inside a building besides deploying one there? Will the building collapse if I enter that hex with a halftrack?
I haven't checked it yet, but gun teams/wagons are said to have the ability to pull guns into building hexes.
thanks, John.



skukko -> (10/26/2001 9:43:00 AM)

Yeah, you can get ATs into the buildings. Remember thou that you'll should use few MGs around and limited visibility. MGs to give AT one or two turn to recover from the enemy fire. Limited visibility to keep enemy fire low. mosh



Tomanbeg -> (10/26/2001 10:26:00 AM)

Yep, and now that little mortars don't make the buildings collapse, it's worth doing. I like putting cavalry in buildings. Zero the range or turn off the weapons and let your opponent bypass them. Not a game winner, but a real gas to charge out of the Barn with guns blazing and moltovs flying. And you don't have to clean the floors after.
T.



Frank W. -> (10/26/2001 10:26:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by John Galt:
Is there any way to get an AT gun inside a building besides deploying one there? Will the building collapse if I enter that hex with a halftrack?
any vehicle will crash or immobilize , if it not destroys the building. but AT guns with movement point can enter a building,what is perhaps with huge guns as 75mm or 76 mm not very correct. the doors should not be big enough to get a big gun through them. in case of small ones (37mm or pack guns) it would be okay......



Tomanbeg -> (10/26/2001 10:45:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Frank W.:
any vehicle will crash or immobilize , if it not destroys the building. but AT guns with movement point can enter a building,what is perhaps with huge guns as 75mm or 76 mm not very correct. the doors should not be big enough to get a big gun through them. in case of small ones (37mm or pack guns) it would be okay......
That is why shovels and picks as well as jacks and chains are part of the tool box on a ammo trailer. Knock a hole in the wall next to a door. run the chain through the hole and back out the door. hook both ends of the chain to your prime mover and down comes the wall. The kewl part is you can be as vandalous as you want without worring about being arrested. Although I did hear a story once about a german cop writing a ticket for speeding to a French tank. That was during a training exercise. I can't see that happening in a war. Although with Krauts, you never know.
T.



Dean Robb -> (10/26/2001 11:00:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Tomanbeg:
That is why shovels and picks as well as jacks and chains are part of the tool box on a ammo trailer. Knock a hole in the wall next to a door. T.

Yup. The Germans were quite good about parking guns and tanks inside buildings by the simple expedient of tearing out the back wall and driving them in. Effective surprise tactic - you're traipsing down the street and suddenly the wall next to you blows outward in sheets of flame and stone as the gun fires. One thing that bothers me about the way SPWAW handles this sort of thing is that vehicles will almost always be immobilized by buildings, which is a bit ahistorical. There should be a chance of immob, but right now the chances are waaaay too high, making the tactic useless. Tanks, esp., should have a better than 70% chance of NOT being immob by a building. As for guns in buildings, be careful! For some reason, it seems that even though a gun has movement points, sometimes it cannot leave a building. More than once I've placed a gun in a great position in a building but had to abandon it because I couldn't get it out of there when things got too hot.



Frank W. -> (10/26/2001 11:31:00 PM)

[
One thing that bothers me about the way SPWAW handles this sort of thing is that vehicles will almost always be immobilized by buildings, which is a bit ahistorical. There should be a chance of immob, but right now the chances are waaaay too high, making the tactic useless. Tanks, esp., should have a better than 70% chance of NOT being immob by a building.
yep sir. i think the same way. perhaps the "stability" of the tank should be taken into consideration. say: a tiger, Brummbaer, SU152 or so should be better in breaking walls without taking heavy damage. but for small ones i find the current rates okay. i think mostly the tracks of the tanks will be damaged. i remember that the T34 had very stable tracks....



Tomanbeg -> (10/26/2001 11:55:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Frank W.:
[
One thing that bothers me about the way SPWAW handles this sort of thing is that vehicles will almost always be immobilized by buildings, which is a bit ahistorical. There should be a chance of immob, but right now the chances are waaaay too high, making the tactic useless. Tanks, esp., should have a better than 70% chance of NOT being immob by a building. yep sir. i think the same way. perhaps the "stability" of the tank should be taken into consideration. say: a tiger, Brummbaer, SU152 or so should be better in breaking walls without taking heavy damage. but for small ones i find the current rates okay. i think mostly the tracks of the tanks will be damaged. i remember that the T34 had very stable tracks....
Back when 2.3 was being re-coded there was a small number of voices clamoring for a breakdown rating by vehicle. IIRC it was decided to do breakdown by nationality, not vehicle. So how to determine what vehicles have hi breakdown numbers? Plus while shedding or braeking a track might be one criteria, T34's in 40 and '41 left the factory with extra axel assemblies strapped to the rear deck. At least I can find references to this in some books on the subject. I can't 'prove' it however. So it is easy to understand why Matrix left the lid on that can of worms.
T.



Drex -> (10/27/2001 12:05:00 AM)

Being in construction, it is unrealistic to expect to take out an exterior wall(a bearing wall)and still have the roof structure or second floor remain intact. Maybe in some cases with care,the wall can be removed and shored up, then a vehicle could be driven in but the game is not configured to allow this.



K G von Martinez -> (10/30/2001 3:38:00 PM)

Well, Drex, I assume it depends on the size of the house and the hole in the wall. If you take out a full wall you have a good chance to have no house afterwards. But if you only make a hole big enough for a gun or a smaller tank a reasonably constructed house should remain upright. And some buildings like farmhouses have doors big enough to let in even big guns without doing damage!



Larry Holt -> (10/30/2001 8:07:00 PM)

I think buildings come in two flavors; - simple 1 or 2 story structures with NO basement found in villages
- more complex multi-story ones possibly with basements. The first can be safely (more or less) driven into. If the roof collapses a tank is powerfull enough to drive out with all that rubble hangin on. In fact I have seen a picture of a German tank driving around with a roof on, unable to dislodge it. While this may seem contrary to our modern experience WWII tankers (as well as modern ones) really did do this as has been mentioned. Basements are the most dangerous thing to a tank. While a tank can handle stuff falling on it, it cannot climb out of a basement and flooring is just not designed to hold tens of tons. Multiple stories are a second hazard to tanks. They can drop so much rubble that the tank is effectively surrounded by a berm that it cannot climb out of or drive through, even though it may otherwise be undamaged.



Tommy -> (10/31/2001 4:25:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
I think buildings come in two flavors; - simple 1 or 2 story structures with NO basement found in villages
- more complex multi-story ones possibly with basements.
Larry It's that 1 story, no basement, farm out-building (the farmer probably stored his tractor in it) that we really should be able to drive into without damage. That's the one I see most often in WWII pictures. It was more for camo and surprise than armor protection. Tom



Drex -> (10/31/2001 7:51:00 AM)

Like I said KGVM, if you use care and shore the wall it can be done, but you can't drive a tank through the wall and expect the structure above not to collapse. The game does not represent the abiltiy to move a vehicle into a building except during the deployment phase.



K G von Martinez -> (10/31/2001 2:22:00 PM)

Sorry Drex, I misunderstood you. Of course, if someone tries to create the hole in the wall by running the tank against the building in most cases he would get only a collapsed building



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