C&C, Defend and Advance stances (Full Version)

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generalrichmond -> C&C, Defend and Advance stances (10/28/2001 7:42:00 PM)

I play with C&C engaged and love it. However, there is one area that I am either having trouble in, or it's just bad implementation (or it's realistic and I just don't understand why). Situation: A platoon of infantry hunkered down (defend stance) in a grove of trees. They have basically reached their first objective, or are just a few hexes short of it. Situation calls for advancement to a ridge ahead. Now, it will take 3 order pts to assign a new objective for the platoon, and then 3 more to get their sorry butts out of defend stance and into advance stance. That is SIX POINTS! Needless to say, it doesn't happen that way too often. It seems to me that if a platoon or whatever is in defend stance, then the assigning of a new objective and movement to it should be open without having to pay to come out of defend stance. What am I missing?



Tomanbeg -> (10/28/2001 9:52:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by General Richmond:
I play with C&C engaged and love it. However, there is one area that I am either having trouble in, or it's just bad implementation (or it's realistic and I just don't understand why). Situation: A platoon of infantry hunkered down (defend stance) in a grove of trees. They have basically reached their first objective, or are just a few hexes short of it. Situation calls for advancement to a ridge ahead. Now, it will take 3 order pts to assign a new objective for the platoon, and then 3 more to get their sorry butts out of defend stance and into advance stance. That is SIX POINTS! Needless to say, it doesn't happen that way too often. It seems to me that if a platoon or whatever is in defend stance, then the assigning of a new objective and movement to it should be open without having to pay to come out of defend stance. What am I missing?
IMHO you aren't putting your objective flag far enough away from your Platoon. And I stay away from the realism debate. I will say that it is accurate for this time period for a change of objective to take a lot of time. During the great patriotic War, communication between Squads in a platoon was done by runner or voice. No IC's and cute little radios with 45 hex ranges. The Platoon Leader says "Take those woods, men" well the woods are empty, so the PC (Platoon commander) now says "take the hill". A runner has to be sent to find the squad leaders and give them their new orders. The squad leaders have to get the troops out of the holes they just got done digging and moving to the correct hill. The troops have to pack up their **** and get it loaded. The average Allied solider started with a 80 to 90 pound pack. Think of it as taking your house with you. Everything they need to live is carried on their back. The first thing you do when you get somewhere is take that damn thing off. Changing the objective for a platoon of grunts is a two turn process. First turn is symbolic of the PC deciding where to go next( to be accurate it is more like the PC getting fresh orders). You do this by moving the objective flag. The second turn represents the time it takes to get the runners out to the squads. This is the defend to attack change. Out in the non-electronic world 4 to 6 minutes to get a platoon out of their holes and moving is real good time and means you have some excellent troops. 10 to 15 minutes would be more reasonable. Thinking ahead pays off, along with planning on there being problems. As many as I can make, if you are playing me.
T.



Dave R -> (10/28/2001 9:53:00 PM)

Look at it this way. You are the Platoon leader. Your troops are spread about, you need to call in your section leaders, brief them on the next objective, give them time to get back to their sections and organize their lads. If they've gone into a defensive position, any heavy weapons will need dismantling and readying for moving, some of the guys may be taking the opportunity to eat, attend to the calls of nature ect.
It all adds seconds to the time needed to kick their butts back into moving mode.
It's a pain, I know, I've been there, there's nothing worse then having a platoon in a perfect position to exploit a situation, only to have them drag their heals getting their arses moving again!
That's warfare for you!



Charles2222 -> (10/29/2001 8:34:00 AM)

Depending on if you play the AI or not, I find putting almost any units if defense mode, when a general attack is on, to be a great luxury (so I never even consider it. As far as I'm concerned, if my attack doesn't have enough punch to where it has to resort to switching to the defense mode, then I need to restructure my attack plans). The reason I mention the AI, is because when the AI attacks he never switches to a defense stance, unless, that is, it might be units such as ATGs which are towards his rear, so if we never resort to switching to the defense mode while on the attack, then IF that's really an advantage, we are somewhat restricting our attacks to be handicapped like the AI.



Drex -> (10/29/2001 9:54:00 AM)

Charles 22 hits it on the head: never put your men into defense status unless you've reached your final objective and now need to defend it.



Redleg -> (10/29/2001 11:16:00 AM)

I sometimes put certain units in defense stance and others in advance stance depending upon the plan I am hoping to use. But even in a defend battle, I will put most units in an advance stance since mobile defense seems to be more fun.



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