SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (Full Version)

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fairbane -> SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/19/2004 3:08:51 PM)

This is a theoretical thread, since WaW is far too big for me to download, so I'm stuck with WW2. However I just wondered what people thought were the relative merits of each game. The last version of WaW I played was V5, and I've always found that WW2 had a much superior AI, as balanced against the annoyance factor of it being DOS based.

What do others think?



Rune Iversen -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/19/2004 5:11:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairbane

This is a theoretical thread, since WaW is far too big for me to download, so I'm stuck with WW2. However I just wondered what people thought were the relative merits of each game. The last version of WaW I played was V5, and I've always found that WW2 had a much superior AI, as balanced against the annoyance factor of it being DOS based.

What do others think?


WaW has a superior engine for modelling vehicle damage and repair. It also provides the scenario designers with more tools (Points per turn/hidden, only captured once V-hexes for instance)

WW2s artillery and infantry model is superior, with the infantry going to ground or taking cover (thereby possibly breaking LoS) when under fire, and low caliber artillery and mortars being quite deadly.



tmac -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/20/2004 12:01:12 AM)

fairbane-
where are you located? there are any number of us here who will send you a cd rom with game and extras essentially for free or a charitable donation made (to your favorite charity). PM me with your mailing address and I'll get one off to you. SPWAW is better in most ways IMHO.
Tim



fairbane -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/20/2004 12:09:01 PM)

Thanks for the offer, but I live in the UK.

Besides, I've already got a copy of v5 with the Desert Fox mega campagin (which looked attractive but features a few too many units for my tastes) and I tend to play MBT more in any case.



Charles2222 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/20/2004 6:06:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairbane

This is a theoretical thread, since WaW is far too big for me to download, so I'm stuck with WW2. However I just wondered what people thought were the relative merits of each game. The last version of WaW I played was V5, and I've always found that WW2 had a much superior AI, as balanced against the annoyance factor of it being DOS based.

What do others think?


There was a time where I highly favored SPWAW over SPWW2, because of the impact of milimeters on tank armor, and most of the rest of it were graphics and audio superiority. After I got used to the SPWW2 dough boys (the infantry, [the rest of the graphics were good]) I kept switching back and forth betwen the two versions. Since then I give SPWW2 the nod, as the interface, smoke, visibility, and map issues made SPWW2 better than it used to be. If I don't miss my guess, you'd probably have to go through some sort of osmosis like I did with it before you'd appreciate the superiority of either design. SPWAW had the edge going in, but over time the SPWW2 gameplay got better, whereas most of the SPWAW change was statisical switching. I take gameplay over graphics most of the time, but if SPWW2 were X's and O's, and the audio were nothing but beeps, but with twice the gameplay it currently has, it would take a long time to get over the hideousness that such a graphic/audio disadvantage would be.



RockinHarry -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/26/2004 3:17:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairbane

This is a theoretical thread, since WaW is far too big for me to download, so I'm stuck with WW2. However I just wondered what people thought were the relative merits of each game. The last version of WaW I played was V5, and I've always found that WW2 had a much superior AI, as balanced against the annoyance factor of it being DOS based.

What do others think?


There was a time where I highly favored SPWAW over SPWW2, because of the impact of milimeters on tank armor, and most of the rest of it were graphics and audio superiority. After I got used to the SPWW2 dough boys (the infantry, [the rest of the graphics were good]) I kept switching back and forth betwen the two versions. Since then I give SPWW2 the nod, as the interface, smoke, visibility, and map issues made SPWW2 better than it used to be. If I don't miss my guess, you'd probably have to go through some sort of osmosis like I did with it before you'd appreciate the superiority of either design. SPWAW had the edge going in, but over time the SPWW2 gameplay got better, whereas most of the SPWAW change was statisical switching. I take gameplay over graphics most of the time, but if SPWW2 were X's and O's, and the audio were nothing but beeps, but with twice the gameplay it currently has, it would take a long time to get over the hideousness that such a graphic/audio disadvantage would be.



Charles_22 sums it up quite well for me!:)

Some more notes of my own (considering I´m not a PBEM player and do lots of modding myself):

SP2WW2 has the better random terrain generation for generated battles and campaigns, thus SP2WW2 is my prefered choice for playing generated campaigns.
(SPWAW allows to use hand crafted maps for generated battles and campaigns though.)

SPWAW has the MEGA CAMPAIGNS.

SPWAW has higher quality graphics due to higher screen resolution and the most important terrain graphics are greatly overhauled compared to the original. In particular all building graphics are superior to those still used in SP2WW2. AFAIK even in upcoming SP2WW2 V7 they still won´t change to the better, although couple new base terrain (graphics) will be added.

SPWAW sounds is way better as it can make use of the common *.wav format, while the SP2WW2 *.mel format is not just lower in quality (and more difficult to handle for modding), there´s also far less dedicated weapon sounds and slots available.

SP2WW2 has more terrain levels (15) for all sort of battles/campaigns, but in SPWAW you can overcome the "limitation" of just having 3 levels by use of map making tools like EXTIZEN´s MOUNTANIZER or Fred Chlanda´s WaWMap Edit. These edited maps then also can be used for generated battles and campaigns.

SP2WW2 has more unique units and formations due to the largely extended OOB format and files. Well...personally it does not really bother me much as I´m mostly busy making mods or scenarios anyways. Also there´s the highly appreciated SPWAW H2H mod if you prefer a different mix of available units and formations.

As sort of grognard player, I also love the CC features not available in SP2WW2 game, although I like some of the SP2WW2 infantry combat features as Rune mentioned them.

My conclusion is to have both games installed on the HD and enjoy (...until Combat Leader arrives)![:D]



Baron von Beer -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/27/2004 1:26:48 AM)

Agree. SPWW2 has the better maps, and more toys to play with. Other things are more of taste, IMO. Both do some things differently. Maps are the one thing that is a let down for me in SPWAW, but it is a 2 part issue. One, is the size in campaigns. I have no problem making a map and inserting it. However, when using a larger than "large" map with the random generator, it is problematic. It doesn't make the map to scale, but simply stretches it out over the new size. Example: Make a Finland vs USSR map at small through large. Then do one at 160 height, then 240. Notice that the terrain features get more and more spread out. Jungle maps also make it very apparent. At large you get a nice dense jungle. At the larger heights you get wide open plains with patches of jungle. As a result, I spend as much time fleshing out maps as playing for a generated campaign. (I prefer playing on a 160 height.) Could be worse though, could be unable to do the file renaming to insert a new map, or not have that size to start with.



Robert J. Smead -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/28/2004 6:03:24 PM)

For many reasons, I favor SP2WW2, and it's companion, SPMBT. I don't get a lot of the DOS crashing some have experienced. The only problem was having to upgrade my VGA, that cost 50 bucks, but was well worth it.



TheOverlord -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/30/2004 1:54:22 PM)

SPWW2 has more units and countries to play with but WAW is my preference for its better ballistics, damage model, spotting rules (try hiding an AT gun in SPWW2, or a sniper for that matter) and the overall graphics are far superior. I also prefer the more percise control over arty you get in WAW. You can adjust the timing to have shells land at the end of your own turn where in SPWW2 they ONLY land at the end of your opponents turn to "give you an opportunity to take advantage of the suppression". I dont always want it to land at the end of his turn....sometime it is nice to suppress him at the end of your own turn so he can not move or attack you as well.

WAW is my favorite!



Charles2222 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/30/2004 3:30:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOverlord

SPWW2 has more units and countries to play with but WAW is my preference for its better ballistics, damage model, spotting rules (try hiding an AT gun in SPWW2, or a sniper for that matter) and the overall graphics are far superior. I also prefer the more percise control over arty you get in WAW. You can adjust the timing to have shells land at the end of your own turn where in SPWW2 they ONLY land at the end of your opponents turn to "give you an opportunity to take advantage of the suppression". I dont always want it to land at the end of his turn....sometime it is nice to suppress him at the end of your own turn so he can not move or attack you as well.

WAW is my favorite!


Just to let you know, but I don't have any problems hiding snipers or ATG's. I'll bet the program is slightly different in that respect, but the only difference I can think of is that SPWAW is different once those units are spotted. SPWAW will only let the opfire happen three times per movement/fire of the spotted object, whereas SPWW2 could conceivable respond with every single unit within range to said target. The other end of it is tha with SPWAW there may always be the possibility of opfire irrespective of how many shots they have, while SPWW2 may have all those units run out of shots and thereby make the target impervious if used as one of the last units moved.

You have to also compare apples to apples, as SPWW2 is a lot more prone to having higher visibilities, therefore the more likelihood of a unit being spotted. To know definitively the difference between the two, you'd have to at least run both games under the same visbility ratings, same terrain, etc., and I doubt many people are that observient. Nonetheless, I have seen very little if any difference in the ability of units to be spotted, but then again I'm usually running my snipers with only one or two hexes at a time anyway.

If anything, firing infantry may be more easily spotted in SPWW2, but then again the squads are usually larger (German infantry has 12 men for example). Don't discount either, the fact that each game has the nation ratings different. I think the Poles for example have a higher rating in SPWW2 than in SPWAW, but the Germans are also higher too (USSR is likely lower than SPWAW).



Baron von Beer -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (4/30/2004 5:58:09 PM)

One other thing I would love to see from SP:WW2, is the cross attachment system. Sure, in a campaign I can attach units to platoons within a company, but have to either leave one unit in the original formation to "hold" it, or loose the formation. Nice to be able to allocate support assets on a per battle basis.



Warmonger -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/1/2004 7:39:15 PM)

Is SpWW2 Free as well? Where can I get it?



Charles2222 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/1/2004 8:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warmonger

Is SpWW2 Free as well? Where can I get it?


Yes, here you go: http://linetap.com/www/drg/SPCamo.htm



Charles2222 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/1/2004 8:19:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baron von Beer

One other thing I would love to see from SP:WW2, is the cross attachment system. Sure, in a campaign I can attach units to platoons within a company, but have to either leave one unit in the original formation to "hold" it, or loose the formation. Nice to be able to allocate support assets on a per battle basis.


My memory is a bit vague when I tried doing that with SPWAW, but it seemed I wasn't too pleased with the results. Maybe the lineup started reading strange in some sort of way when I did that (maybe retaining it's old identity [J3 for example]) or the additional platoons 1st unit got thrown into the vacancy of the old platoon. Anyway, one thing in SPWW2 which offsets, in my mind, if you have that aspect of SPWAW functioning well, is that you can add to your core just a long as you have enough points, any time into the campaign. I can't tell you the number of times I've played any version of SP where I was begging to have another section of SPAA or another section of 88's, and just couldn't manage it from the start without making for a less pleasing discomfort elsewhere. It's really nice to think that if I think I must have very experienced SPAA in the core, and if the nation I'm playing doesn't need much AA early on, I can then throw more into the core as it's needed later.



Jim1954 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/2/2004 12:24:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warmonger

Is SpWW2 Free as well? Where can I get it?


You might as well pick up SPMBT while you are there, too.



wodin -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/9/2004 2:47:52 AM)

Ive just downloaded SPWW2 (I already have SPWAW) and to be honest the graphics for the tanks seem less erm bitty I suppose is the word and though they seem a little more cartoony they are nicer to look at. However the scrolling is far to slow (whereas with SPWAW I find at default far to fast).

Ive only just started to get into SPWAW but wanted to see what SPWW2 looked like and I found it easier to distingush tanks and infantry from the background.

Is there anyway of improving the unit graphics on SPWAW. Maybe change a video setting or something?



Charles2222 -> RE: SP:WaW vs SP:WW2 (5/10/2004 1:15:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Ive just downloaded SPWW2 (I already have SPWAW) and to be honest the graphics for the tanks seem less erm bitty I suppose is the word and though they seem a little more cartoony they are nicer to look at. However the scrolling is far to slow (whereas with SPWAW I find at default far to fast).

Ive only just started to get into SPWAW but wanted to see what SPWW2 looked like and I found it easier to distingush tanks and infantry from the background.

Is there anyway of improving the unit graphics on SPWAW. Maybe change a video setting or something?


In SPWW2, you need to get into SPWW2/Data/Spww2.ini and change line five to a higher factor using notepad to edit. Read the readme file in that directory for a more detailed explanation. Also, though it's very minimal, the scroll can be adjusted also by hitting the bracket keys ( '[' and ']' ). If you're familiar witht he SPCamo website's mentioning that line '7' is the scroll adjust speed, it is not. It is as the readme file states in the data directory.



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