disappointed!!

disappointed!! (Full Version)

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scorryuk -> disappointed!! (4/20/2004 12:50:59 PM)
Having read through the forums here to try and improve my gaming experience it`s clear alot of you out there love this game. Unfortunately I seem unable to share this collective enthusiam-but not for lack of trying. To give you an example- I played as US, started training my pilots to increase experience before Jap attack. Keep close eye on morale, fatigue etc. Have search planes on patrol. Next thing I know Jap fleet appears out of nowhere of coast of Gil. Ok I think, all those bomber sqauds I transfered from Austrailia will be put to good use as will my carrier group sitting SE of Japs. Of course I cant choose targets so all my aircraft decide to attack the small group of transports and destroyes (4 ships in total) as opposed to large 10ships+ of main Jap fleet. I might have forgive the computer if it had have sunk one but out of 50 aircraft I get 2 measly hits!! For crying out loud they didn`t have any aircover. Sitting ducks to an air squadron. Ok maybe my Carrier force can do something. No, didn`t launch. So I make the mistake of changing fleet status to "react to enemy". Which it duly did by racing north- alot! Putting itself in range of nearly all Jap land based aircraft and within spitting distance of much stronger Jap force. My planes attack, get cut to shreds and score zero bomb strikes out of 12. Japs attack , skip by CAP and cripple my 2 carriers. Can you understand how I might feel a bit cheated? Not to mention the feeling that I got to make practically zero tactical input. For me this game seems to miss the crucial ingedients for the carrier battles of the pacific (well apart from luck which was all one way!). I think the definitive war game that does this period of history justice should be real time. Timing was one of the biggest factors in determining victory- when to strike your enemy and when not to. I want to be able to play the cat & mouse game played by the navy commanders- using darkness and weather fronts to quickly close then steam out of range to avoid their counter attack. Catching the enemy off guard and bombing their carriers as there planes refuel/rearm on deck. I want to decide the flightpath of my bombers so as to disguise my fleets location. I want tactical reports from my XO telling me the enemy fleet has just been spotted heading SE at 30 knots, how will I react. Or maybe the main elevator has been damaged and we cant launch planes for 2 hours, a long time when the enemy carriers are in striking distance. I want to be able to have subs and seaplanes shadow enemy fleets to give runing commentry on their movements/actions. All these things and more would give battles a tense atmosphere and feeling of excitement. I really be interested to hear what other gamers think of all this. I know this game has alot of fans and I`m not looking to upset them. Just expressing my disappointment that as a seasoned strategy gamesplayer , I couldn`t warm to this game.

sven6345789 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 2:43:49 PM)
1) TF out of nowhere: keep some planes on searchduty 2)LBA attack Transports: The CV's have aircover. They would only attack that TF with fighter escort 3)no hits: thats an experience problem, The allied bombers start to score many hits after reaching XP of 65-75 4)putting TF on reaction: DON'T!!!!!!!!!! like NEVER!!!!!, unless you use them in defense (Noumea for example) 5)night combat: take a look at the different TF's you can form (manual) some will exclusively try to reach their target at night (Fast Transport or Bombardment); takes a while to get used to it 6)cat and mouse: this is possible if you put your CV's on "do not retire/ do not react" If you get the hang of it, it is a good game

PzB74 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 3:40:25 PM)
UV isn't, and was never ment to be a real time game. You'll have to play Destroyer or some other simulator to get that experience. About your failures against the AI: I think it's a good sign that it kicks your a$$ in your early attempts [:D] Wouldn't it be a lousy AI that lost against someone playing the game for the first few times? As Sven points out, you still got a lot to learn - and the learning-curve is always steepest in the beginning. To find out whether you really like this game or not, hang in there and learn all its quirks. Consider starting a pbem game against an equally experienced opponent. That would be a lot of fun me thinks [8D]

Shadow of the Condor -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 4:58:22 PM)
Hello scorryuk, welcome to UV! First, please understand what I'm going to post are my impressions of the game. I haven't played the AI much at all beyond the first two learning scenarios (and perhaps it shows with my losing PBEM record, but that's another story [;)] ) but after reading your post with its frustrations, let me offer this observation. UV isn't a tactical game at all. For me, the combat is almost (bit "almost") an afterthought. UV places the player in the role of an operational commander, not a TF commander. Being in charge of an entire operation, you have to trust the subordinate comanders you assign to a particular TF. Note each TF commander available has skills (leadership and skill, IIRC) as well as an agressiveness rating and what type of TF they're best suited for (surface, carrier, or invasion). The only commanders you can't change are submarine skippers. You can even control the commanders of air squadrons (somewhat) by disbanding a squadron whose commander has bad ratings and transferring the planes and pilots into a squadron with a "good" commander (something I do almost immediately with the B-17s starting the game at Rockhampton). After you set the commanders and sail your TFs, you have to let them do their jobs (and live with the consequences). And that is the proverbial tip of the iceberg. "Combat" has to be prepared for. Far beyond getting the right assets in the right place at the right time with the right weather and right commanders, you have to be concerned with where the TF sails from and where it will return to. Does the right base exist where you want it to be? How is that base getting supplied? Do you order the base to focus on improving its ports first, its airfields first, or its defensive fortifications? Or ask the base commander to do all three at once? Does the base have enough air support personnel to properly service the aircraft there? What about radar? And what squadrons will you allocate to the base for its own CAP? As the Allied commander, how will you handle the early stages of the operation, when both you and your opponent know Allied fighters are inferior machines to the IJN Zeroes - yet after about six months of the onset the F4U Corsair begins to overcome that deficiency? How you handle one of your most powerful air assets (B-17s) in the beginning of the war when their skills are less than stellar? Do you stand them down and let them train in a ground school or order them onto Naval Search missions to gain experience flying over enemy territory? As the IJN commander do you make the all out push for an auto victory by the end of 1942 knowing the tables will turn and you will be the one with the "older" equipment? Or do you try to consolidate and prepare for the Allied onslaught that will surely come? And that doesn't even begin to focus on submarine usage (lay in wait in deep water chokepoints or brazenly sail into an enemy base looking for targets?), ASW air and surface forces. Sending ground troops into combat and having them take over a base is exciting and gratifying, but then what? Have you prepared to rotate them out aftetr being in a forward area with malaria problems and the morale of the troops begins to fall? What ships will be assigned to the TF? Where will they come from? What troops will you use as replacements? (pause for breath) I hope I didn't overwhelm you, but IMHO this is one of the greatest operational wargames I've seen. Perhaps my breadth of experience is limited, but the concept of going beyond the "Flash-Bang!" of a lot of the games on the market today is what drew me to UV (you mean I have to actually send supplies and fuel if I want ships to operate??). Having said that, I am also the first to admit the game isn't for everyone. Playing a PBEM with one day turns can run into eight months of actual time. It requires a dedicated opponent who is willing to put as much into the PBEM as you are. So most play the AI where the commitment isn't as great. But playing this game via PBEM with a dedicated opponent (with its tremendous ups when things go right and earth-shattering crashes when things go less than right) has been one of the most satisfying experiences with any wargame I've played. (dang, did I just type all of that?) Anyway, welcome aboard! [:)]

Gen.Hoepner -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 5:37:40 PM)
The first time i put my hands on UV i've been a bit concerned too. I came from SPWAW and for some reasons i thought i'd find here a kind of game like spwaw. It was not that easy to understand the right level where the game is set. Now,after 6 months of play i can say that this is prob the best wargaming exp i've ever had. Consider that i never played vs a human opponent. The AI can be challenging enough i think. In my current Scen 19 game i'm having so much fun whatchin how the battle for Lunga develops. It's late august 42 and my brave men of americal div are sieged at lunga since june.They're are holding against an overwhelming jap force(almost 2 divisions). My role here,as the commander in chief of the southpac area, is not to go aboard of lady lex and lead a TF into the very heart of the battle,but to stay in my office at Noumea,read oll the reports of the day,consider all the options,whatcing maps and give orders to my subordinates. That's all UV is intended to be.

scorryuk -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 7:47:00 PM)
Appreciate all the replies! Definately a steep learning curve. Never thought about importance of commanders, thanks will have to look at this. As for lack of hits had definately trained squadron up. Will maybe persevere, but still feel the game is slightly flawed genius.... What do you think of my comments on a real time version of the game where timing is as important as the strategy?

Dunkamoto -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 8:14:11 PM)
If you want a good real time (sort of) Carrier battle game SSGs Carriers at War is pretty good. It is a little old now but a very enjoyable game.

Slick91 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 8:20:33 PM)
I agree with the other comments that this should not be seen as a tactical game at all. What you are looking for is Harpoon3 but set in WWII platforms. If you enjoy modern naval combat then I highly recommend you look into that game: www.harpoonhq.com I'm personally a fan of both real-time and turn-based. �Highway To The Reich� does a good job of tactical decisions in real-time, but it is a different genre altogether. As far as UV, I can�t stress enough to devote hours to reading and understanding the manual and then reading the changes and fixes done since version 2.0 came out. This game is sooooo complex that you will get your butt kicked every time if you don�t understand it inside and out. Even the small scenarios can leave you black and blue in a few minutes of game play. The first thing I did when I bought this game was play through the tutorials reading along with the little book that came with the game. Then, I tried my first scenario, Coral Sea. I had my ass handed to me on a silver platter with gold trim. I played it a second time and was still murdered. Finally, I printed off the full blown manual and read it from start to finish. The next time I played, I fought to a draw and then later to a minor victory. Sadly, I must say that I haven�t played it in the last few months due to being occupied by other things. I can�t wait for War in the Pacific to come out. I�ll gladly fork out the extra dollars for that one. Study (don�t just read) the manual and patch notes. It will be a different game to you.

Oznoyng -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 8:35:01 PM)
As a complete noobie trending slowly towards wet-behind-the-ears ensign, I will firmly attest and affirm that the interface, help, and manual are far and away the biggest problems in the game. Figuring out what to do is far easier than doing it. It is simply nuts that you have to figure out how things work rather than RTFM. For the beginning player, this board is the only resource to figuring out how some things work. One sentence hidden in the game manual should often be replaced by a half dozen paragraphs with pictures. As for the unwritten stuff...

grraven2004 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 9:13:27 PM)
I bought this game when it first came out. My first attempt was scenario 17. Got my butt kicked bad right off the bat. Decided to try again. Still playing that one. In this one I have lost the CV's, Lexington,Yorktown,Saratoga, and the Wasp. The AI has lost Akagi and Kaga and 2 cvl's. The main point here is I didn't give up kept plugging along and now have a substantial base at Vella LaVella and am starving out Shortlands and Buka. I have recaptured Gili Gili and Buin and am thinking about invading Lae. All this wouldn't have been possible without keeping at it. I can only say that playing a game like this has giving me fits and alot of extra grey hair I didn't need (3 kids is enough to do that all on its own) but has been very rewarding. I can now smash the AI at will its not even a challenge to me. Only the other players here give me any challenge at all. SO KEEP AT IT.[:-]

sven6345789 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/20/2004 10:34:22 PM)
by the way, made exactly the same mistakes in the beginning. I had about 30+ restarts against the AI until finding a �workable tactic for allies and japs alike. Started my first PBEM now. It already is quite different from a game against the AI.

bradfordkay -> RE: disappointed!! (4/21/2004 7:13:18 AM)
quote: As for lack of hits had definately trained squadron up. IIRC, training your pilots will only bring them up to a minimal experience level. After that, you have to give them actual combat missions. My favorite missions for medium and heavy bombers in the early going are ASW and Naval Search. These get the guys up and in the air, gaining real experience. Also, level bombers at higher elevations don't do so well against ships that are moving. It takes very experienced crews to do some good here (ships that are in port - anchored or docked - are another story). You might want to remember that level bomber crews suffer severe morale penalties for missions below 6000 feet in altitude. The later skip bombing techniques are best left to very experienced crews - ratings over 80 or 85 IIRC.

scorryuk -> RE: disappointed!! (4/21/2004 5:58:42 PM)
good tip about the level bombers. Had begun to experiement with the skip bombing and wasn`t sure wether not it was worth it. Damn, I`d be lost without this forum!!

crsutton -> RE: disappointed!! (4/21/2004 9:39:09 PM)
Well, I think you were both the victim of bad luck and inexperience. It is true that there are many secrets and tactical tips that are not published anywhere. If you follow this forum for about three months or so you can expect to be up to par. I like a lot of different games. Real time, First Person Shooters, old style IGO-UGO and so on. Let me say this about UV. I have never spent as much time learning a game as I have with UV. Also, I have been playing the game since it came out and have yet to grow tired of it. That says a lot as I generall grow tired of most computer games after a while. Most of them just do not hold my attention. This is the hardest damn game to get to know. There are still a few annoying bugs as well. But after learning the game, I think it is the best and it gets the bulk of my gaming time. That said; at times this game can be a bit dull. In the game as in the read deal there are long periods of relative quiet combined with brief periods of bloody chaos. It is not for everybody and so be it. But for serious gamers and serious students of the Naval War in the Pacific, nothing else comes close. Think I will go load up some Medal of Honor and take out some annoying clan members.[X(]

Titanwarrior89 -> RE: disappointed!! (4/22/2004 1:12:49 AM)
[:D] I think UNV works just fine as a turn base WarGame. Real time would screw it up. Look at the problems with Hearts of Iron. Its a game based on history, but not a historical Wargame. I think that one would have been much better as a turn base.

pasternakski -> RE: disappointed!! (4/22/2004 1:54:14 AM)
Well, remember that this is not strictly a "turn-based" game. That conjures up memories of "Igo-Yugo" from the old paper-and-cardboard days. In this game, you give your orders, then allow the game to execute them for the period of time that you have set for execution. Execution is simultaneous. This is one of the greatly unappreciated wonders of computer wargaming. Try to understand it and enjoy it before condemning it in favor of the silly "RTS." There is no "real time" in "real time simulation."

scorryuk -> RE: disappointed!! (4/22/2004 11:21:32 PM)
Ah the fortunes of war... When I first started playing this, everything that could go wrong for me did. Having taken heart from the many replies to my original post (thank-you all!) I decided to have another proper go. Started Coral Sea scenario as US and this time it was my turn to kick ass! My PM CAP has shot down dozens of attacking bombers, my LBA blasted hell out of the enemy troop ships as they landed at Buna and Gili, my surface fleet from Brisbane sunk 2 destroyers and a MSW in a night battle before retreating from enemy carrier planes and then my own carrier planes proceded to finish off convoy ships. My carrier fleet then successfully fought off a Jap aerial counter attack shooting down 14 planes and evaded a sub attack. To say I`m chuffed is an understatement! Complete opposite of the disaster I experienced at start of my UV experience. Would not have been possible without the many, many pages of tips and advice that I gathered from this forum and it`s links.

Rendova -> RE: disappointed!! (4/22/2004 11:26:01 PM)
Thats the beauty of this game, when you have a good turn your King of the world (or at least the South Pacific) when you have a bad turn you want to deleate it from yor hard drive, change your email adress and never speak to you PBEM partner again [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]. The trick is to be king more times then not [;)]

2ndACR -> RE: disappointed!! (4/22/2004 11:44:28 PM)
Glad to see you enjoying the game now. Now start a " I love this game thread". P.S. Just joking. I still make mistakes and get my head handed to me which doubly bad as to it is the AI.

CMDRMCTOAST -> RE: disappointed!! (4/23/2004 3:18:26 AM)
My first PBEM game I had JAP troops in oz after 2 1/2 months, lost my entire carrier fleet in the first 2 weeks of the war. I thought about quiting and the guys in this forum talked me out of it, and I have to believe that was the best thing about this game, the knowledge and dedication to this game by these guy's is overwhelming. I played that game to the end when I was finally able to stop the IJN at rockhampton after a 6 month non stop battle for my life,I lost to the autovictory condition but just stopping the onslought at rockhampton was a minor victory for me and the things I learned about this game being on the defensive for so long is irreplacable. ( now I have to learn how to be an offensive player ) Thats gonna take another 6 months. Play the game for 6 months and see what you think, I think you will come around to appreciate the quality of this game.[&o]

scorryuk -> RE: disappointed!! (4/23/2004 8:31:36 PM)
That was part of my problem at start, too offensive. Takes time to appreciate that you cant just charge in all guns blazing. Also big change in pace from all other games I`ve ever played. Everything takes time, planning and complete attention to detail.

m10bob -> RE: disappointed!! (4/27/2004 2:55:40 PM)
IMHO this is one of the finest wargames ever created. IMHO,the oldest problem with this game,is the absolute and inexcusable(IMHO)ability to designate "target-types" when launching carrier aircraft.[:(]

AmiralLaurent -> RE: disappointed!! (4/27/2004 5:03:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scorryuk That was part of my problem at start, too offensive. Takes time to appreciate that you cant just charge in all guns blazing. Also big change in pace from all other games I`ve ever played. Everything takes time, planning and complete attention to detail. Exactly my opinion on this game, certainly the best wargame I have ever played, even if it is frustating sometimes. Current version (2.20) is far batter than the first and Matrix did a great job to improve the game, taking in account the players complains and questions here on this forum. Sadly, no new patch until WitP is in the sales box. I'm a far more organized and cautious player now. I would say that out of five major operations I plan and began to organize, two are cancelled, one or two delayed and the other worked as planned. I no longer continue to advance when there is a "minor" problem (for example, I don't know anymore where the enemy CV are, or I was seen before I had planned to or a TK is late and so on). It's the first time I made paper plans for a computer wargame. I would say that for a major landing, preparations in the game (putting troops, planes and ships at the good place and good time, aerial recons and bombings and so on) will begin at least one month before the landing. So my planning is, for example in an IJN scen 17: Objective: take Port Moresby When: when IJN will have at least 6 CV. A look on the reinforcements page, should be OK on 1st July in Truk, so invasion date will be 10 July. OK that means that my incasion convoys will sail from Rabaul on the 3 July and from Truk on the 25 June. That means that I would need x transports on these bases some days before (loading and refueling) time, with enough escorts. The troops, supplies and fuel necessary should be there. And some planes to cover them. To know how much transports you nedd, you have to choose the units taking part and then find how much tons AP you need and so on. All forces (combat and transports) may need a TK resplenishment fleet. I can planify an ASW operation just before the convoy sails. For an invasion in PM, the best place to base air support is Lae, so there should be aenough AA, fighters, air base and engineer personnel and supplies there to be operationnal. Of course, all this should be done before the transports are needed for the PM invasion, so finished on 10 or 15 June. Then you have to plan, the secondary operations (for example seizing Gili Gili to have an harbour where put your damaged ships, and capturing Lea Lea and Buna so the PM garnison has no retreat path), the submarines, etc, etc.. Last but not least, you have to planify what you will do after the operation. 2nd wave fresh troops for garnison, air base and engineers units to use the base, new supply convoys, maybe a TK convoy if you want to use the port.... So in a scen 17 to take a defended PM, you may consider two months of preparation (that may mean a lot of action anyway and seizing of minor bases), one month of execution and one month of reorganization and ship repairs before another major operation. And PM invasion is "easy" compared to Noumea or Australia operations.... A Noumea operation schedule was a document about 10 pages long when I made it.... and the operation was never launched due to a CV battle that turned bad a month before. As a newbie more than a year ago, I had also super TF sailing all across the map, surface TF doing bold night raids and so on. Once you have battled an experienced PBEM player, all of this is over. As once said, war is 95% boredom and 5% death for the soldier. In UV it is rougfhly the same ratio between preparation and decivise battles. .... As for training, you will have to wait for months before Allied LBA will be able to hit a ship in open sea, other than an occasionnal lucky hit. There is three types of training in UV: _ ground training: training orders with training level 0%. Pilots with exp under 60 may win exp and there will be no op losses (useful mainly for IJN players when they receive replacements with 20-30 exp...) _ flying training: training orders with training level more than 0%. Here the pilots fly and may crash but will win exp more quickly. I do this when all pilots are above 50 exp and when the exp of the unit is under 60. _ "operationnal" training: naval search and ASW patrols for bombers, CAP in rear area for fighters/fighters-bombers. Once the xp unit is 60 or more. If you have the choise, engage you air units when exp is over 65 exp. A good tip for Allied LBA at the start of the game. Keep them grounded or on naval search until your CV planes, subs or surface ships damaged some ships. Then your bombers will easily sink the damaged ships. I love this game

Damien Thorn -> RE: disappointed!! (4/27/2004 5:20:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent Current version (2.20) is far batter than the first and Matrix did a great job to improve the game, taking in account the players complains and questions here on this forum. Sadly, no new patch until WitP is in the sales box. Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30.

AmiralLaurent -> RE: disappointed!! (4/27/2004 5:31:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30. Yes, it was a typo. Too many time no new patch has been released. Was the 2.20 version the 'air battle = bloodbath' version or the one where 200 planes will fight and only one or two fall ?

marky -> RE: disappointed!! (5/3/2004 6:11:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scorryuk Having read through the forums here to try and improve my gaming experience it`s clear alot of you out there love this game. Unfortunately I seem unable to share this collective enthusiam-but not for lack of trying. To give you an example- I played as US, started training my pilots to increase experience before Jap attack. Keep close eye on morale, fatigue etc. Have search planes on patrol. Next thing I know Jap fleet appears out of nowhere of coast of Gil. Ok I think, all those bomber sqauds I transfered from Austrailia will be put to good use as will my carrier group sitting SE of Japs. Of course I cant choose targets so all my aircraft decide to attack the small group of transports and destroyes (4 ships in total) as opposed to large 10ships+ of main Jap fleet. I might have forgive the computer if it had have sunk one but out of 50 aircraft I get 2 measly hits!! For crying out loud they didn`t have any aircover. Sitting ducks to an air squadron. Ok maybe my Carrier force can do something. No, didn`t launch. So I make the mistake of changing fleet status to "react to enemy". Which it duly did by racing north- alot! Putting itself in range of nearly all Jap land based aircraft and within spitting distance of much stronger Jap force. My planes attack, get cut to shreds and score zero bomb strikes out of 12. Japs attack , skip by CAP and cripple my 2 carriers. Can you understand how I might feel a bit cheated? Not to mention the feeling that I got to make practically zero tactical input. For me this game seems to miss the crucial ingedients for the carrier battles of the pacific (well apart from luck which was all one way!). I think the definitive war game that does this period of history justice should be real time. Timing was one of the biggest factors in determining victory- when to strike your enemy and when not to. I want to be able to play the cat & mouse game played by the navy commanders- using darkness and weather fronts to quickly close then steam out of range to avoid their counter attack. Catching the enemy off guard and bombing their carriers as there planes refuel/rearm on deck. I want to decide the flightpath of my bombers so as to disguise my fleets location. I want tactical reports from my XO telling me the enemy fleet has just been spotted heading SE at 30 knots, how will I react. Or maybe the main elevator has been damaged and we cant launch planes for 2 hours, a long time when the enemy carriers are in striking distance. I want to be able to have subs and seaplanes shadow enemy fleets to give runing commentry on their movements/actions. All these things and more would give battles a tense atmosphere and feeling of excitement. I really be interested to hear what other gamers think of all this. I know this game has alot of fans and I`m not looking to upset them. Just expressing my disappointment that as a seasoned strategy gamesplayer , I couldn`t warm to this game. i KNOW wat u mean wen u say ur disappointed [:'(] ive played alot of games in my 10+ years of my gaming career, and right now i cant remember being this disappointed by a game, that i havent been able to play AT ALL i havent even been able to play it for 1 second cuz the stupid thing wont work [8\|] o, btw, good rule for games with a computer? the computer ALWAYS cheats [;)] u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED

grraven2004 -> RE: disappointed!! (5/3/2004 9:57:10 AM)
o, btw, good rule for games with a computer? the computer ALWAYS cheats u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED _______________________________________________________________________________________ The computer usually cheats because the AI isn't smart enough to give the good players a real challenge if they were equal [:D]

Damien Thorn -> RE: disappointed!! (5/3/2004 5:59:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent quote: ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30. Yes, it was a typo. Too many time no new patch has been released. Was the 2.20 version the 'air battle = bloodbath' version or the one where 200 planes will fight and only one or two fall ? 2.20 was the air bloodbath version. Actually, I kind of liked that one. It was the only time I ever shot down more than 1 B-17 in a battle. [:(]

scorryuk -> RE: disappointed!! (5/4/2004 2:07:09 AM)
Thats OK, I cheat too by reloading saved game after what i see as amazing bad luck (i.e I lose 3 destroyers to mines in same Hex, same turn!!) Still my opinion of this game has went up alot since my first post and I`m going to stick at it. If you don`t like AI challenge u could try PBEM though from what I read of some the unconventinal tactics employed in the war reports section you might be tempted to overlook computers flaws!

marky -> RE: disappointed!! (5/5/2004 12:16:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: grraven2004 o, btw, good rule for games with a computer? the computer ALWAYS cheats u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED _______________________________________________________________________________________ The computer usually cheats because the AI isn't smart enough to give the good players a real challenge if they were equal [:D] LOL [:'(] they should change it to A.S. huh? (Artificial.Stupidity)

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