AA sees through smoke? (Full Version)

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minefield -> AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 6:28:39 AM)

I read once that AA guns disregard smoke. Is this true? How about when attacking ground units?



vahauser -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 5:32:23 PM)

They disregard smoke only when shooting at aircraft (they can somehow look "above" the smoke in this case).

However, AA guns do NOT disregard smoke when shooting at ground targets.



Robert J. Smead -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 5:58:21 PM)

Yes, but smoke is not an inpenetrable curtain. It reduces chances of spotting, reather than being a solid wall.



rbrunsman -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 7:30:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert J. Smead

Yes, but smoke is not an inpenetrable curtain. It reduces chances of spotting, reather than being a solid wall.


You must not have played much SPWAW![8|]



Belisarius -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 8:33:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert J. Smead

Yes, but smoke is not an inpenetrable curtain. It reduces chances of spotting, reather than being a solid wall.


You must not have played much SPWAW![8|]


Hahah how true. As far as SP:WaW is concerned, smoke is an inepentrable curtain except for

a) splash damage
b) Panther Uhu



Voriax -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (4/28/2004 10:40:31 PM)

Should not be inpenetrable for Uhu any more..it's IR range is now 12 which means 4 hexes. And not 40 (10 hex) which used to be thermal imager code in SP3 [;)]
Haven't tested Uhu's since version 8, so I'm quoting from memory.

Voriax



returnfire -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/1/2004 7:06:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voriax
Should not be inpenetrable for Uhu any more..it's IR range is now 12 which means 4 hexes.


You mean 12/4 = 3 hexes?



Voriax -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/1/2004 11:54:29 AM)

Heh yeah, typos happen.

Voriax



FlashfyreSP -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/2/2004 4:35:28 AM)

Unfortunately, the Panther Uhu HAD a visibility range of approximately 600m. When coupled with the SdKfz 251/20 Uhu halftrack mounting an IR searchlight twice as large, the effective range grew to over 1200m.
Doing the math means:
600m / 50m per hex = 12 hex range for the Panther
1200m / 50m per hex = 24 hex range for the Uhu 251/20

Remember, too, these were active IR devices...that means the searchlight PROJECTED the IR energy, as opposed to the passive systems in use today (and the way the game code interprets it). This means that each unit in the game relies on it's own visibility rating, not the projected rating of companion units. Which is why it can't be modelled realistically in this game.

And the range data in the OOBs for the various Uhu-type units is incorrect. I have a mod for these units on my website (The Bunker) if anyone is interested in trying them out. The vision ratings are set equivalent to those listed in spec data (the links are included in a text file) that I found while researching a scenario idea.



elmo3 -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/2/2004 1:38:16 PM)

Does smoke completely block LOS or not? Just downloaded the game and was playing the Guards Counterattack scenario to learn the rules. I put smoke in the street and tried to cross but immediately took fire right through the smoked hexes. So my impression is that it does not block LOS. Playing version 8.1. Thanks for any definitive answer.



Voriax -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/2/2004 2:48:23 PM)

There are two thicknesses of smoke, for example when unit flees and pops smoke that smoke is thicker than you get when the unit throws a smoke grenade with the 'x' key.
Usually smoke blocks los. I'm not exactly sure what factors allow seeing through smoke, probably height differences are important. Hmm..could do some testing..

Voriax

edit: elmo3, in that scenario you have lots of units at height level 40. when you pop smoke on the road which is level 0 there is los over that smoke. Also when visibility ranges go to 30 or so and above the smoke tends to become more transparent.



elmo3 -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/2/2004 3:47:45 PM)

OK, thanks. I can see higher units firing at higher untis might not be blocked. However units in the road are at level 0 in that case right? If so I would think the smoke would block LOS but they got hammered when they moved into the smoked road hex. Perhaps the smoke only reduces LOS, but I thought someone implied above that it was blocked completely.

Edit - Does the version of the game matter? I downloaded 8.1 with True Update but my startup screen still shows 8.0?!



Voriax -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/2/2004 4:37:02 PM)

You have 8.01. It is just an oob update and do not update the .exe where the version number is.

Voriax



Irsmert -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/3/2004 1:17:55 AM)

Tell me if this is correct, you somke one hex, and move your unit into that hex, but the hexes on the sides are not smoked? If this is the case, you need to smoke the hexes on the side, not the one that you move your unit into, otherwise it will do nothing. If you did smoke the hexes on the side, then ask someone who knows exactly how height affects this.



rbrunsman -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/3/2004 2:45:43 AM)

What is the max visibility in the game you are playing? If vis is over 25 to 30 hexes, I forget the exact #, then you have to pop smoke twice to block LOS. It really isn't complicated.

Just look around with your units. If they can see through the smoke, then the enemy can too.

As smoke dissipates you can sometimes get situations where you can see through two or even three hexes of this "residual smoke" but that stuff isn't really the smoke that you "pop" with your own units.

Also, you get no hiding bonus for being IN a hex with smoke. The blocked LOS only works for hexes behind the smoked hex.



elmo3 -> RE: AA sees through smoke? (5/3/2004 3:06:18 AM)

Ok, thanks. Guess I better RTFM although I don't recall anything about not getting a smoke benefit "in hex" the first time I read through it.



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