How many riders on a Tank - the proof! (Full Version)

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Tommy -> How many riders on a Tank - the proof! (11/14/2001 8:16:00 PM)

Paul, Here it is, the proof! We've been demanding that you allow more infantry to ride on a tank; but you've refused. You cite lame excuses like "they didn't do that in real life". Well, here's the proof that they did [img]http://home.adelphia.net/~talmeida/spwaw/soldiers_on_a_tank.jpg[/img] . These Northern Alliance troopies in Afghanistan (I count 21 on the front half alone) show that it can be done! Now Paul, modify the OOB's to allow at least 40 men (and a donkey or two) to ride on each tank. Tommy



Larry Holt -> (11/14/2001 8:38:00 PM)

But this was on the "E" model of the tank that had .0005 less slope and 15 cubic inches more space due to repositioning of the radio and aux scope. Production numbers for the "E" model are unclear but it seems to equate the "K" model that is in the Bulgarian OOB. I will fight any attempt to cram another model in instead of adding the donkey mounted triple tube AA that clearly was produced in at least 4 versions (including the advanced model where its ears were tied back to keep them out of the way).



generalrichmond -> (11/14/2001 8:44:00 PM)

I'd be spinning that turret in circles as fast as it would go!!



Alexandra -> (11/14/2001 9:41:00 PM)

Let's also not forget that those guys were not under fire! Picture an RPG, or a M-60, or even a molotov hitting one of those vehicles. You'd lose the vehicle, and 2 squads. So, in SP terms, sure, let you mount 40 guys on a tank - if they all become casualties when it brews up! In fact, one could say that the only glaring weakness in the SP passenger system is that passendgers don't lose enough men when the vehicle explodes. Alex



Tommy -> (11/14/2001 9:53:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:

So, in SP terms, sure, let you mount 40 guys on a tank - if they all become casualties when it brews up!
Alex
Larry, Alex didn't mention any donkey casualties. Do you think he knows about the 5th version of the of the triple tube AA donkey,; the one with the Nomex/Kevlar blend pajama's? Tommy



Cona -> (11/14/2001 10:31:00 PM)

[img]http://www.webshots.com/photos/imgs3/17/5617-mid.jpg[/img] [ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Cona ]



AmmoSgt -> (11/15/2001 12:00:00 AM)

Alex ... all you have to do to reduce casulaties in a 40 person carry mode on the E version is to have the turret angled 7 degrees to the right... and if you open all the hatches at exactly 37 degrees ( the E model has inclinometers on each hatch for this purpose ) donkey casulaties will be reduced 47.9 % ... if the troops are wearing Mk VII kelvar turbans casulities should be almost nil ...
btw if you check the Mk V donkey mounted triple AAA gun has no ECM or smoke dischargers and is very vunerable in an air attack ...so the Northren Allinace has only been using them in a rear area support role and you are unlikely to see them in actual combat



Larry Holt -> (11/15/2001 12:09:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by AmmoSgt:
Alex ... all you have to do to reduce casulaties ...t
AmmoSgt, are you having fun at Alexandra's expense? I am shocked that someone would mock the details that some go into in OOB development, its the heart of the technical accuracy of the game. Oh wait, I made a such a post. I must now go calculate the added benefit of the MKII dark paint on US tanks. It seems that when the sun warms it, its coefficient of friction increases and APCR-XYZ rounds richocet at 0.00589% greater probability.



Paul Vebber -> (11/15/2001 12:34:00 AM)

You guys (and gals) crack me up



Charles2222 -> (11/15/2001 1:16:00 AM)

.....And of course the mandatory Fran Tarkenton disclamer: "Kids, never try this at home." Perhaps the crew was silly enough to have tried the British trick of frying eggs on the mudguard and before you knew it there was company. That's probably a field kitchen tank, or would be after the frying . I'll bet you'll spot a few chickens in that picture. [ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]



m10bob -> (11/15/2001 1:23:00 AM)

Actually if we can load some of those tanks down with strap-on phone booths and a few VW's,i think we might cram on another hundred or so...watcha' think professer????



chief -> (11/15/2001 2:32:00 AM)

Those guys on the tank (with mule) had better watch out for the Tally bands 40mm camel mounted ATGs...they are lethal...and I hear that camels are deadly to mules....have you ever smelled a camels breath, now that's cb warfare....



BlitzSS -> (11/15/2001 2:57:00 AM)

Paul needs to modify the armor rating of tanks carrying more then 10 troops, although it might not help to much, like strapped on tracks, against AP, HEAT rounds it should dramatically help absorb HE.



panda124c -> (11/15/2001 3:18:00 AM)

Just how many people can you get into a VW Bug?????

Hey can't you get five more it they ride the cannon barrel. Don't even talk about the one riding the MG barrel.



Warrior -> (11/15/2001 3:57:00 AM)

I hate to inject a serious note here, but while designing Redleg discovered that if you cut the number of men in the squad, you can overload almost anything. Once they're loaded, reset to the original squad size. Of course, after they dismount you'll never get them all on again.



valdor17 -> (11/15/2001 11:21:00 AM)

Those aren't riders---they're 'spaced armor'!



Khan7 -> (11/15/2001 1:35:00 PM)

The notion that the Northern Alliance would carry that many men into battle on its tanks is utterly preposterous. The added weight of these boisterous hitchhikers would cut the top pushing speed of the team of new recruits behind by an entire 5 feet per hour. Such a compromise of battlefield mobility is something no good commander would ever even consider. Matt [ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Khan7 ]



K G von Martinez -> (11/15/2001 3:13:00 PM)

By the way, Alex, you are wrong: these guys were under fire, probably even under heavy fire - of a camera ot two



fguillemart -> (11/15/2001 4:03:00 PM)

I think none of you guys considered the protective effect of M251 depleted uranium beards when dealing with 40 mm camel ATGs. And may I remind you that Mk V AAA donkeys are now supplied w/ laser range finders that enhance greatly their effectiveness against low flying crows



Tommy -> (11/15/2001 9:40:00 PM)

!!! THIS JUST IN !!! Spy photo of Taliban AAA Donkey Model II. This earlier version lacks the ear tie down modification found on later models (note scorch marks).
[img]http://home.adelphia.net/~talmeida/spwaw/donkey_aaa.jpg[/img]



Larry Holt -> (11/15/2001 10:16:00 PM)

Tommy, Do you have CIA connections? Great new intell!



Charles2222 -> (11/15/2001 11:30:00 PM)

Would that be Eeyore by any chance? Eeyore would be a fitting spokesanimal for them.



11Bravo -> (11/16/2001 12:29:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy:
[QB]!!! THIS JUST IN !!! Spy photo of Taliban AAA Donkey Model II.
Nice mountain camoflauge! I think this finally puts to rest the necessity of emptying out the Finnish and other little used OOB's so we can include all the important and historically correct paint jobs found on ass-mounted artillary units. Some suggestions: Jungle, Pasture, Arctic, Harlequin, and the rarely seen (but important!) Octoberfest Ceremonial Full-Regalia. [img]http://www.donkeybreedsociety.co.uk/images/homehead.jpg[/img] [ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: 11Bravo ]



tracer -> (11/16/2001 5:02:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Valdor:
Those aren't riders---they're 'spaced armor'!
Nope: reactive armor. The waving gives it away.



Dave R -> (11/16/2001 6:07:00 AM)

Actually guys. You all have it wrong. Thiis is a Red Cross photo of a bunch of poor souls who have developed TankFoot! Apparently Northern Allience Medics are desperatly trying to discover the M1A1 strain of this ailment!



pax27 -> (11/16/2001 7:11:00 PM)

And why stop at the loading of AFV´s. The picture below shows that you´d be able to cram at least a couple of platoons on each heavy truck, along with all the clothes, ammo, toiletseatcovers, makeup and what ever the ww2 soldier needs to make war. Note that the trucks are Mercedez, so the troops on the picture must be german SS during the North Africa campaign! [img]http://w1.311.telia.com/~u31119168/truckers.jpg[/img]



melcer -> (11/16/2001 7:29:00 PM)

Don't forget the most important consummable for the Taliban AAA donkey, the carrot. Without, it will be great under fire but wont move to another position.
We must hope that the talibans has run out of this most strategicaly important resource.



Charles2222 -> (11/16/2001 9:01:00 PM)

melcer: Well obviously the solution is to bomb carrot fields then. Only problem is that they would see the strategy soon enough and then deploy one or more 'animal shields' by getting famous rabbits like Bugs Bunny and Rabbit (from Winnie the Pooh [and let's not forget the rabbit used on Captain Kangaroo]) held hostage over the most noteworthy fields.



melcer -> (11/16/2001 9:24:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
melcer: Well obviously the solution is to bomb carrot fields then. Only problem is that they would see the strategy soon enough and then deploy one or more 'animal shields' by getting famous rabbits like Bugs Bunny and Rabbit (from Winnie the Pooh [and let's not forget the rabbit used on Captain Kangaroo]) held hostage over the most noteworthy fields.
True, what would the PC-crowd say when rabbits are being bombed. Me, i don't care that much about the rabbits as long as you GET THOSE FIELDS!
The problem is that those fields would be the Taliban AAA donkey favourit area to be in. You have consider the probability of heavy losses among the strike pilots. Melcer



Charles2222 -> (11/16/2001 10:06:00 PM)

melcer: Have you ever considered the advantages of an anti-carrot missile? Sure, you could get some homegrown carrots on the jets, replace regular missiles with them, and fire them into the enemy's rear. What this would achieve, is as the donkey offensive was commencing, a lot of these missiles to the rear would confound the donkeys to follow those missiles instead. Of course the problem would be two-fold. You would have to fire enough missiles to attract the donkey to your carrots, over the one in front of them on the stick (a case of one almost in the hand/hoof to many from the Bush), or you would have to deploy super-carrots large enough in size (perhaps even decoy carrots would work) to make the one in the hoof seem meaningless. Having thought about this more, perhaps having leaving the fighters to regular missiles would be best, and instead start the carrotkrieg by dropping them from bombers drifting down in parachutes.



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