Soviet sniper causes 3 casualties with one shot! (Full Version)

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ericstat -> Soviet sniper causes 3 casualties with one shot! (11/30/2001 3:06:00 AM)

Hi all. I'm currently playing the Stalingrad campaign and am in the second battle, an open advance on a town close to the Don. Things are going well, with little casualties so far (only turn 4), and have been able to wipe out some Soviet Scout squads and AT positions. I was being a little careless, moving one of my German Scout Teams 3 hexes, when all of a sudden, coming from a group of trees comes a shot from a sniper. Much to my amazement (amusement?) my team suffers 3 casualties. One shot! (I spotted the LONE sniper later in the turn). I thought I was having flashbacks of playing Half Life and someone shooting a Rocket Launcher (kills anything close), but then I shook my head and verified I WAS indeed playing SPWAW. Being the great game that it is, I figured there is a logical explaination... This is what I came up with:
1. My German Scout Team are such close buddies, that they like to march into an unknown town, where there has already been signs of battle, in a single file, in VERY close proximity. The lucky shot from the Soviet sniper just happened to hit all three. 2. My German Scout team are carrying AT mines. Since (see #1 above) the team is so friendly, they were in close proximity, when the lucky Soviet shot happened to hit a mine carried by one of the members, causing it to detonate. Two unfortunate Landsers were injured by the blast, causing a total of 3 casualties. 3. My German Scout team is made up of Bavarian replacements, who like their Augustiner Edelstoff Bier and Laeberkase a bit too much. The Soviet sniper hit one (only a wound, not a clean kill), and since he was so fat, he required two of his buddies to carry him back to the rear area, effectively causing three casualties. So, which seems the most likely? E.



voyrep -> (11/30/2001 3:49:00 AM)

I go for no 1! In the movie "Enemy at the gates"
it seems like the entire battle was won (or lost)
by snipers alone, all the other participants were only there for the scenery. So why not have überhuman snipers killing entire squads with just one round. Voyrep



AmmoSgt -> (11/30/2001 4:09:00 AM)

One Game "Shot" is 1 -5 bullets .. so it should be perfectly obvious that a Soviet Sniper armed with a SVT 40 and a PU scope triple tapped your scouts with about half of a magazine ... It had to be an STV, because a 91/30 Moison-Nagant , although more accurate when equiped with a PU scope is a slower firing weapon , and two kills would probably the best that could be expected out of 1 "gameshot" [ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: AmmoSgt ]



LilJoe -> (11/30/2001 4:59:00 AM)

Wow that also answered my question about how my experienced sniper was able to snag 4 enemy bodies in 1 shot! I also destroyed an SPW 250/10 with a sniper shot. Must have hit the gas tank



Paul Vebber -> (11/30/2001 5:12:00 AM)

Also, a Casualty is not DEAD, but COMBAT INEFFECTIVE. YOur sniper may have shot one guy, and then two of his buddies carried him back to teh aid station, 3 men being lost to teh squad for teh duration of the scenario. THe vast majority of "Casualties" are not dead or even wounded, just either cowering in their hole, like the guy in one of BoB's early episodes, or as many vets relate, they accompany their comrades in a semi-conscious "robotic" state until they "wake up" minutes to hours later not remembering how exactly they got to where they were, and not having fired a shot from their weapon...the mind has strange ways of coping with the un-real reality of war.



choco -> (11/30/2001 8:12:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by LilJoe:
Wow that also answered my question about how my experienced sniper was able to snag 4 enemy bodies in 1 shot! I also destroyed an SPW 250/10 with a sniper shot. Must have hit the gas tank
Yeah, nothing incredible in destoying a SPW 250/10 with a sniper shot as during Gulf War a friend of me have see a single sniper hitting a BMP motor compartiment, causing its halt, then shot a Tank commander and both the infantry of the BMP and the tank crew fleed, all in 2 or three sniper shots. Kuku Polska



Alexandra -> (11/30/2001 9:35:00 AM)

I *still* have the best SP: WaW sniper story, as I lost a 19 men IJA squad, in one shot, to an Aussie squads slot 3 sniper rifle ALex



generalrichmond -> (11/30/2001 10:36:00 AM)

Well, that *is* the craziest thing I've heard of. I think we should make up a story as to how that occurred!



choco -> (11/30/2001 11:30:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:
I *still* have the best SP: WaW sniper story, as I lost a 19 men IJA squad, in one shot, to an Aussie squads slot 3 sniper rifle ALex
Wow, They were all equiped with sniper rifles ?



Fabs -> (11/30/2001 6:18:00 PM)

Your German recon team obviously ran into the sights of Igor Zaitzev, the Soviet super-sniper from "Enemy at the gates". He killed the leader and wounded another man with two bullets, before changing position to avoid detection. The third man is assisting the wounded man and in a mild state of shock. He's out for the count, I'm afraid.



panda124c -> (11/30/2001 8:34:00 PM)

I opt for number 3, after all the sniper only 'took out' three Germans. Must be a newbee.



Belisarius -> (12/2/2001 1:24:00 AM)

I'd go with number 3: The Bavarian dudes had just had a big supper (unusal occasion indeed), so they ate a tad too much of Sauerkraut and Wurst. The Russian Übersniper hit Landser #1 in the abdomen, causing the intestinal gases to combust and thus slaying Landser #1 in a terrifying explosion. Landsers #2 & 3 are either knocked out cold or otherwise rendered unfit for combat due to the a)sight b)smell c)shockwave d)all of the above.



RichardTheFirst -> (12/2/2001 3:45:00 AM)

I have a 4th option: the bullet made ricochet in two bavarian heads.
"Hans? Fritz? OUCH" [ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: RichardTheFirst ]



asgrrr -> (12/2/2001 4:05:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:
I *still* have the best SP: WaW sniper story, as I lost a 19 men IJA squad, in one shot, to an Aussie squads slot 3 sniper rifle ALex
WAAAAAAA... The sniper rifle is a prime infantry weapon, so everyone in a squad has it. Whoever put it in a regular squad is a f****** criminal! The result does not entirely surprise me. Another thing. All the sniper rifles I have seen in the game are bolt action types. What would one expect of a self loading sniper rifle in terms of kill, accuracy and rate of fire? One version could be same kill, slightly less accuracy and about double ROF.
Another could be kill around 7-8, slightly less accuracy and same ROF. I kind of lean toward the former.



Jasper -> (12/2/2001 4:55:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ericstat:
Hi all. I'm currently playing the Stalingrad campaign and am in the second battle, an open advance on a town close to the Don. Things are going well, with little casualties so far (only turn 4), and have been able to wipe out some Soviet Scout squads and AT positions. I was being a little careless, moving one of my German Scout Teams 3 hexes, when all of a sudden, coming from a group of trees comes a shot from a sniper. Much to my amazement (amusement?) my team suffers 3 casualties. One shot! (I spotted the LONE sniper later in the turn). I thought I was having flashbacks of playing Half Life and someone shooting a Rocket Launcher (kills anything close), but then I shook my head and verified I WAS indeed playing SPWAW. Being the great game that it is, I figured there is a logical explaination... This is what I came up with:
1. My German Scout Team are such close buddies, that they like to march into an unknown town, where there has already been signs of battle, in a single file, in VERY close proximity. The lucky shot from the Soviet sniper just happened to hit all three. 2. My German Scout team are carrying AT mines. Since (see #1 above) the team is so friendly, they were in close proximity, when the lucky Soviet shot happened to hit a mine carried by one of the members, causing it to detonate. Two unfortunate Landsers were injured by the blast, causing a total of 3 casualties. 3. My German Scout team is made up of Bavarian replacements, who like their Augustiner Edelstoff Bier and Laeberkase a bit too much. The Soviet sniper hit one (only a wound, not a clean kill), and since he was so fat, he required two of his buddies to carry him back to the rear area, effectively causing three casualties. So, which seems the most likely? E.
That sniper is from the future, he travels through time and used a guass rifle....u must be damm bad luck to meet him. His name is call Alf, he is relative of my, I am Mars and he is from the planet Pluto.....



SoleSurvivor -> (12/2/2001 5:51:00 AM)

nah... the soviet snipers hit the Beer tank. This made the three men run for new beer.



choco -> (12/2/2001 12:32:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by SoleSurvivor:
nah... the soviet snipers hit the Beer tank. This made the three men run for new beer.
U r right but it was not beer but Schnaaps....



Igor -> (12/3/2001 2:51:00 PM)

Regarding that Aussie squad...they didn't actually have a sniper rifle per man (on top of the regular rifle each carried, and presumably the LMG each carried...). Only the first weapon in a unit is carried by each man. The rest of the weapons are single issue only, and generate casualties once per shot instead of once per shot per man. For fun, try editting the TOE to allow for two man sniper teams. I tried it once; an extremely effective, but rather fragile unit. They seem to be spotted as regular infantry, and two men don't last long if spotted by full squads.



asgrrr -> (12/3/2001 6:54:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor:
Regarding that Aussie squad...they didn't actually have a sniper rifle per man (on top of the regular rifle each carried, and presumably the LMG each carried...). Only the first weapon in a unit is carried by each man. The rest of the weapons are single issue only, and generate casualties once per shot instead of once per shot per man.
The manual seems to disagree with you Igor. Each "prime infantry" weapon is given to every man in the unit. My experience is that this is true.



john g -> (12/3/2001 7:17:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
The manual seems to disagree with you Igor. Each "prime infantry" weapon is given to every man in the unit. My experience is that this is true.
Slot 3 and 4 weapons are supposed to be one man per squad shooting per shot. It was noticed back about v2 that it didn't work that way so the squad leader smgs were pulled, a squad with rifles and smgs and a squad lmg put out horrendous firepower close up. If there is still a prime weapon in slot 3 it is a mistake. Any slot 2-4 weapons need to secondary so that only one man shoots per shot. It is the same sort of problem as the non limited traverse 75mm gun on the Grant, if it was a smaller weapon it wouldn't have the wide field of fire, but that is something that didn't get fixed since it only affected a few tanks. Certain rules are supposed to apply to the slots to limit what the weapons in them can do. Some of the rules don't work the way they are supposed to.
thanks, John.



AmmoSgt -> (12/3/2001 7:49:00 PM)

Penetrator ... Actually there should be at least two semi-auto sniper rifles in the game ..The Soviet SVT 40 is a semi-auto firing the same cartridge as the Mosin Nagant 91/30 sniper rifle ..both used the same scopes .. however the SVT was considered a little less accurate. The Other Semi would be the M1D1 version of the M1 Garand .. it had a special barrel and mounted a scope. M1D1 Garands were considered fully as accurate as the M1903A4 snipers. For The Record, there is a Rifle Match that occurs ocasionally , The Name escapes me , but I will dig it up and post it , if anybody is interested, The Basic Rules are 300 meters, Target visible for 1 minute, scoring area is IIRC about 20 inches in Diameter, score is recorded as Hits in the scoring area/ shots fired . the record is held by a British Major firing a British Lee-Enfield No4 Mk1(T) Sniper, with a score of 38/42( thats 38 hits , 42 shots in 1 MINUTE). The Competeion started as a shoot off between Mausers and Enfields but now includes military weapons from all countries, Inculding Semi-Auto. Another serious consideration in that the Finn M39 that is built on M91 Russian series recievers using Finn barrels and stocks was a general issue infantry rifle , that had to meet a bench reat accuracy requirement of 3 rounds touching or inside a 1.5 cm square ( about 3/4 inch group in western center to center style measurement) at 150 meters before being issued to troops . Typical basic issue military rifle accuracy would be more in the 4 to 5 inch group at 100 yards/ meters. Accuracy is, of course, just as dependant on the shooter as the rifle. But the M39 is fully as accurate a rifle with open sights, as any other scoped, offical, purpose built sniper rifle , out to about 300+ meters, and would be and is a slot 1 rifle in game terms.



asgrrr -> (12/3/2001 7:57:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by AmmoSgt:
Penetrator ... Actually there should be at least two semi-auto sniper rifles in the game ..The Soviet SVT 40 is a semi-auto firing the same cartridge as the Mosin Nagant 91/30 sniper rifle ..both used the same scopes .. however the SVT was considered a little less accurate. The Other Semi would be the M1D1 version of the M1 Garand ..
There is at least one more. I read that the germans used the Gew43 semi-auto rifle as a sniper weapon. Of course, that weapon, and the earlier Gew41 are entirely missing from the game, as I have pointed out to Vebber.



AmmoSgt -> (12/3/2001 10:16:00 PM)

I can understand the GW 41 not being in the game, it didn't work very well..not many were made AND issued ..and it wasn't liked by the few troops that were inflicted with it.
However the GW 43 is a different situation all together... well liked, about 500,000 made, appaerntly a majority if not all of them,(depending on sources) equiped with a scope. Production started in Oct 43, with general issue of them starting later that same year. I have no definative accuracy numbers for them. but apparently at least the Czechs like them well enough to use them for elite sniper teams for several years after WW2. Interesting side note, however, Panzerfaust web site list their effective rate of fire at 30 rounds per minute, which is the low end of semi-auto rifles. ( note in above post a bolt action Lee-Enfield, admitedly the fastest turn-bolt action ever made, got 38 hits in one minute). Probably due to the need to load the 10 round magazine( 1 per weapon issued ) by striper clips. I don't know. if anybody has any good sites on this weapon. I would love it if you shared them.



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