hybrid carriers (Full Version)

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Matt Erickson -> hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 7:19:55 AM)

Any chance the japanese can convert some of thier ships to carriers?[&:]



rogueusmc -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 7:34:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Erickson

Any chance the japanese can convert some of thier ships to carriers?[&:]


the CVLs were i believe



freeboy -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 8:29:26 AM)

Whether you can convert, my thoughts from reading nearly all posts in the last month would be no, you can always tweek with the editor

Does anyone know if one can tweek an in process solo game?.. or switch sides ?



2Stepper -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 1:44:02 PM)

Well if I recall my history on the matter, I THINK the CVS Chitose and CVS Chiyoda were at least available for conversion to low-grade CVL's. I honestly don't recall if they ever did it historically or not. I would think at best it would be an "optional rule" for inclusion later in a patch if it's not in the initial release...

Just my thoughts



pauk -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 2:07:34 PM)

Also if i recall correctly, i think that some of japanese BB (Ise, Fugo???) can be converted to, what you call "hybrid carriers"...

but, i'm not 100 % sure....



LTCMTS -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 5:57:10 PM)

Hybrid carriers applies to ships with carrier features crossed with that of other ships. The Ise and Hyuga had their aft turrets removed and a flight deck and catapults added. The flight deck, however, never had arrestor gear, so that the chances of a/c landing back aboard were zero to nil. The flight deck really just provided a place for the staging of a/c for the catapult launches.
The Chitose and Chiyoda were converted to carriers. Real carriers, albeit, light and limited in their capabilities. The IJN also converted thsub depot ships Takasaki, Tsurugisaki, and Taigei into the CVLs, Zuiho, Shoho and Ryuho. They finished the battleship Shinano and tried to the finish the heavy cruiser Ibuki as carriers. Thy converted seven merchant ships as carriers and intended to convert three more. Finally, the Mizuho and Nisshin, near sisters of the Chiyoda and Chitose, would probably have been converted to CVLs if the IJN had had the time and resources.



TIMJOT -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/30/2004 9:16:08 PM)

IIRC, testers have stated that the both the Chitose and Chiyoda can be converted to CVs after a certain date. Unfortunately as of now the neither the Nishin or Mizuho are convertable. I think the Ise and Hyuga can be converted to the Hybrids but not sure why anyone would want to.



LTCMTS -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 1:56:27 AM)

It's probably not reflected in the game but when the Ise and Hyuga were rebuilt and modernized in 1935-36, the IJN found there was too little depth in the two aft barbettes and hull to increase turret elevation to 43 degrees. This meant that the front four turrets could range to 38,770 yds, while the two aft turrets could only range to 35,800 yards, giving two different required ballistic solutions for the same range. As a result, losing the two aft turrets probably improved the accuracy of their salvos.



Tiornu -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 5:17:36 AM)

The conversion cost Hyuga only one turret, the other having already been lost to a turret accident in spring 1942 (an accident that came close to destroying the ship). I am skeptical of the usual description of the Ise turret situation despite its prevalence in published sources including FLEETS OF WORLD WAR II. Can anyone point to anything distinguishing Ise's aft turret from Fuso's?



Matt Erickson -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 9:03:24 AM)

Phew! a couple of historical honchos in this thread[:D] as for the turret question is this a trivia question or do you not know,needless to say I bow down to your knowledge[&o]I was mainly hoping of taking some 10K plus cargo ships an sticking a cheap flight deck on them,as I really don't know what kind of strategic industrial options are avaible in the game,thanks for the great replies.



Matt Erickson -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 9:05:34 AM)

oh as for the turret question I'll take a stab at it one of them had a catapult launch on it...yes[:)]no[&:]



Onime No Kyo -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 9:30:55 AM)

Unless memory has abandoned me completely, I beleive that the Ise and Hyuga had 5 turrets apeice. In this configuration, there was a magazine below the aft two. I think they put the flight decks above the Y turret barbette.



mogami -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 10:02:24 AM)

Hi, They had 6 turrents before conversion and 4 after.


There is an interesting almost concerning these ships
July 1942:
To partially compensate for the loss of carrier strength at Midway, the Navy Aircraft Department begins plans to convert the ISE-class battleships to full-sized carriers each carrying 54 planes. This concept is abandoned due to lack of time and resources and the hybrid battleship/carriers concept is adopted.

As hybrids they carried 22 float planes and were worthless. As 54 plane CV they might have been interesting.



Apollo11 -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 10:05:48 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, They had 6 turrents before conversion and 4 after.


There is an interesting almost concerning these ships
July 1942:
To partially compensate for the loss of carrier strength at Midway, the Navy Aircraft Department begins plans to convert the ISE-class battleships to full-sized carriers each carrying 54 planes. This concept is abandoned due to lack of time and resources and the hybrid battleship/carriers concept is adopted.

As hybrids they carried 22 float planes and were worthless. As 54 plane CV they might have been interesting.


Very interesting indeed...


But how would they get crammed with 54 aircraft?

Where would aircraft be stored? Is there sufficient space at all (to still retain this funny BB/CV mix)?


Leo "Apollo11"



Mike Scholl -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 10:29:45 AM)

APPOLO If converted to CV's, I don't believe the plans included keeping any of the
Main Armament (much as the Akaki or Kaga conversions were to CV's, not Hybrids)



Onime No Kyo -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 10:33:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, They had 6 turrents before conversion and 4 after.


There is an interesting almost concerning these ships
July 1942:
To partially compensate for the loss of carrier strength at Midway, the Navy Aircraft Department begins plans to convert the ISE-class battleships to full-sized carriers each carrying 54 planes. This concept is abandoned due to lack of time and resources and the hybrid battleship/carriers concept is adopted.

As hybrids they carried 22 float planes and were worthless. As 54 plane CV they might have been interesting.



2 turrets midships? That seems to be very strange. How did they deal with interference from the superstructure?



Matt Erickson -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 11:18:57 AM)

somone needs to post a pic of these ships for refreshers sake,I seem to remember two pagoda mast's,needless to say they were very plucky ships's.If only the hiei an kirishima had such luck[:-]



Apollo11 -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 11:49:55 AM)

HI all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

APPOLO If converted to CV's, I don't believe the plans included keeping any of the
Main Armament (much as the Akaki or Kaga conversions were to CV's, not Hybrids)


I think they were planned to still be hybrids and not full conversions (like in case of Kaga/Akagi in Japan and Lexington/Saratoga in US)...


Leo "Apollo11"



Matt Erickson -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 12:33:42 PM)

Well from what I read they were implenteted pretty much after midway, a crash program if you say.



Mike Scholl -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 12:37:36 PM)

As was the Shinano project and a number of other attempted "quick fixes". The Japs
knew about the "Two Ocean Navy Bill" and it's subsequent upgrades..., so they knew
they were going to have a steady stream of "Essex" to face starting in 1943.



Delphinium -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 2:20:33 PM)

From what I've been reading, the Japanese never ended up with the planes, or pilots for these 2 and they just ended up being part of the infamous "carrier decoy force" at Leyte.



Tiornu -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 5:09:16 PM)

In the wake of the Midway shock, the Japanese started frenetically on a series of redesigns. As far as I know, every old battleship was treated to some sort of CV idea, though I'm not sure about the Nagatos. For the Ises, suggestions included one-third conversions, two-thirds conversions, and complete conversions. This last would have involved a Junyo-ish island and a bow that, in profile, looks to me rather like Soryu's. I'm guessing the heavy AA battery would have been sixteen guns. The extended hybrid with its four 14in guns looks very much like the historical conversion but with the flattop extended all the way to the funnel, which stood between the paired catapults. Heavy AA mounts in sponsons along the flight deck and in the forward superstructure totaled sixteen guns.
It should be remembered that, at the time of the Fuso design, battleships commonly resembled "turret farms" with five or more mounts. (Agincourt: fourteen guns in seven centerline turrets!) The Japanese persisted with this arrangement longer than anyone else; this provided lots of redundancy and lots of powder trains.



tsimmonds -> RE: hybrid carriers (5/31/2004 5:18:16 PM)

http://hush.gooside.com/name/i/Ise/Ise.html

Here's a link to some nice Ise drawings, silhouettes, and photos....looks like a complete history of the ships modifications, but the text is in Japanese.



Tomo -> RE: hybrid carriers (6/1/2004 3:38:46 PM)

Yes, there was a plan to convert Fuso class to CV.
I have ever read that a blueprint was completed but It was stopped because of lack of time/resources.
I don't know Nagato & Kongo class.

The man who is living in front of my parents' home was crew of YAMASHIRO. He was rescued by US navy when YAMASHIRO was sunk. Only 10 or 20 crews are rescued at that time(means other crew are dead).
He never try to tell about war till now...



kaleun -> RE: hybrid carriers (6/1/2004 5:40:01 PM)

Hi Tomo.
I had never seen one of your posts before. Welcome to the forum.
It is refreshing to hear from "the other side"
I for one would be very interested in opinions and stories from the Japanese side. I don't believe that many are available in English, except for Sakai's and Fuchida's books.



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