How to fight a Tiger (Full Version)

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Resisti -> How to fight a Tiger (12/4/2001 11:01:00 PM)

http://rkka.h1.ru/tiger.htm Found this interesting page inside a (interesting,too) russian site. Now question for numbers crunchers is: do the numbers given out by Marshal Voronov match with those implemented in Spwaw?



blitzkrieg -> (12/4/2001 11:13:00 PM)

really good information,I enjoyed reading about it , thank you,
blitzkrieg.



AmmoSgt -> (12/5/2001 2:21:00 AM)

Resisti ..I have found , especially in PBEM, that by following those instructions , ambushing tigers from the flanks , and letting them come into about 10 to 12 hexes , works real well.
I think if you ask around , most folks who have actually served in tanks , or in antitank infantry units in the miltary , will remember having had training or seen diagrams outline different tanks vunerable areas ..best places to penetrate, best places to hit to ignite onbard ammo, or fuel, best places to disable with light anti-tank weapons like the old LAWS ect .



asgrrr -> (12/5/2001 7:53:00 AM)

Verrrrry interrrrresting.... Too bad that the 122mm A-19 gun mentioned in the document, which was the most reliable weapon against the tiger of the period, is not even in the game



Ross Moorhouse -> (12/5/2001 8:17:00 AM)

I use a chair and a whip when taking on a Tiger.. Oh not that type of Tiger... Well I have found that its takes heaps of Shermans to take out a Tiger.



Bing -> (12/5/2001 9:15:00 AM)

Give me one US Devil In Baggy Pants Airborne trooper, one late model baz and two or three HEAT rounds, at two hex range. Goodbye Tiger. Nice ****cat. Too bad about that hairball. Bing



Fabio Prado -> (12/5/2001 9:40:00 AM)

A very intetresting site, Resisti! The data seems very acceptable, and I liked this remark: Remark: it shows respect to Tiger as the instruction demands to shoot at Tiger until it has only wheels left. And specially this observation: A hit in the base of turret blocks it and prevents rotation of the turret in the desired direction, The tank has to turn and expose to the fire its most vulnerable places. You will find many reports of this turret jamming from the schwere Panzer Abteilungen. This really happened. Thanks for a new source of info on the Tigers! Fab



troopie -> (12/5/2001 10:05:00 AM)

I find a platoon of T-34/85s works. Or a section of partisans with molotovs. Or an Olifant. troopie



panda124c -> (12/5/2001 7:57:00 PM)

Best way to take a Tiger, Fight Dirty.



Capt. Pixel -> (12/9/2001 4:10:00 AM)

I think the point that's always lost on the Tiger is the lack of slope on the front and sides. I very rarely achieve a ricochet when I'm firing at a Tiger. That feature goes a long way in making the Tiger a less than desireable tank, IMHO



generalrichmond -> (12/9/2001 4:54:00 AM)

Aside from the trannie strain, I think the lack of sloping armor is what prevents it from being the end-all, be-all in the Eastern theatre. It still reigns as king for the majority of it's presence, but what it could have been... carumba!



Mikimoto -> (12/9/2001 5:13:00 AM)

"Much has been written about this overweight, under-powered amd short-ranged tank. It's been much maligned as being a clumsy vehicle on the battlefield, wich was certainly true in the mountains of Italy and the marshes around Leningrad. But at Prokhorovka in July 1943 the Tiger reigned supreme. Each of the divisions of the 2nd SS Panzer Corpos began Citadel with a company of about 15 Tigers, but there were only a dozen operating Tigers in the entire 2nd SS Panzer Korps by the 12th. Still, every borad stroke account of the battle would have us believe there were 100 - so great was the effect of that dozen. The Germans put their best crews in these tanks, which, with its powerful gun and thick hide, harvested astonishing numbers of Soviet tanks. Seven of the 12 Tigers at Prokhorovka were rendered inoperable by the end ot that day, each requiring multiple hits from 76mm guns or greater before going down. Over 80 hits were found on one of the damaged Tigers, yet it wa repaired in three days, just as soon as four replacement road wheels and a spare sprocket could be found. Tigers were usually found in the van of every German attack and in the most crucial sector of every defensive battle. Used aggressively by well trained crews, these tanks remained a major problem for Western Allied and Soviet commanders until the end of the war" By John Desch.
Command Magazine nr 36. Every and all means to kill a Tiger are unrealistic: I love Tigers.



Belisarius -> (12/9/2001 6:29:00 AM)

Mikimoto, I suppose you haven't missed what the guys over at the ABRO Bovington are occupied with? Tiger 131 - Our Tiger The journal has taught me more about Tiger construction than anything else.



Mikimoto -> (12/9/2001 4:43:00 PM)

Thanks Belisarius. Nice work! Those guys really love cats!



Frank W. -> (12/10/2001 12:32:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius:
Mikimoto, I suppose you haven't missed what the guys over at the ABRO Bovington are occupied with? Tiger 131 - Our Tiger The journal has taught me more about Tiger construction than anything else.
what a interesting website!! i must travel to england someday to visit this museum....



asgrrr -> (12/10/2001 8:28:00 AM)

Attacking Tigers with T-34s is one of my favorite challenges. Assuming this is pre-85mm days, I would take at least 2 platoons, or in any case the better part of a company. The mobility of the T-34 allows infinite outflanking. Establish two fire points against the target, where you have a T-34 with shots left. If the Tiger returns fire at one, respond with the other. This way, at least he doesn´t get improved accuracy. When the target has run out of regular shots, and preferably taken a few hits, close with a T-34 against the side or rear. This should be a tank with some APCR ammo, or better yet, an OT-34. They can stand at 2 hex range and have a pretty good chance of a hit with the flame thing, and the angle means nothing. Usually I buy a platoon of OTs for each regular T-34 company. Of course, during all these maneuvers and firings, you may lose a tank now and again. Then you just bring up the next one. If you lose less than 3, consider it a success. It is about the same point worth, but the Tigers have rarity Of course, with infantry or artillery support it gets much easier. Then a platoon of T-34s will do.



GI Seve -> (12/11/2001 12:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by troopie:
I find a platoon of T-34/85s works. Or a section of partisans with molotovs. Or an Olifant. troopie
My choise is olifant. Though most time Im da nazi



Redleg -> (12/11/2001 4:25:00 AM)

Tigers are my favorite prey. Since I can get a platoon of elite infantry for what a Tiger costs, I usually go after them with grunts. My favorite is to catch them at night in a snowstorm in wooded area or city. ;-)



asgrrr -> (12/11/2001 8:24:00 PM)

This is probably an old issue, but can anyone explain the front turret armor bonus on the Tiger? In v6 this was 176, v7 reduces it to 159, but all sources I have seen give this as 100-120. A similar story can be told of the younger sister. v6 gives front turret armour as 215, v7 194, but sources 180. While I am carrying on with this issue, the side armour of the tiger is 88 in the game but sources claim 80. Is this a bonus for hardened german steel? Not unrealistic if that is the case, but I hope it is not so for Tiger 2. v6 gives it 80 in side armour, equal to the nominal value, but v7 is up to 88. What gives? It is widely reported that Tiger 2 (a late war tank) was constructed of inferior steel, so a penalty rather than a bonus would be appropriate.



Charles2222 -> (12/11/2001 10:25:00 PM)

Penetrator: Part of the deal for the Tiger FT is because it has a very large mantlet which is quoted between 100-115mm. Add that to the FT armor of 100mm. It seems the general direction of armor ratings has been to reduce heavy armor such as Tiger FT and increase the lesser armors of things like the Tiger SH. Of course such is bad news for Gerry players using heavier armored vehicles, while good news for those with Shermans/Comets. Actually I would've expected the KTiger to have been given the 88mm SH treatment as well.



asgrrr -> (12/11/2001 10:47:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
Penetrator: Part of the deal for the Tiger FT is because it has a very large mantlet which is quoted between 100-115mm. Add that to the FT armor of 100mm. It seems the general direction of armor ratings has been to reduce heavy armor such as Tiger FT and increase the lesser armors of things like the Tiger SH. Of course such is bad news for Gerry players using heavier armored vehicles, while good news for those with Shermans/Comets. Actually I would've expected the KTiger to have been given the 88mm SH treatment as well.
Thanks for clearing up that FT thingy. About the other thing, your wish is granted in v7, but do you know what is the basis for it?



Charles2222 -> (12/12/2001 12:36:00 AM)

Penetrator: Seems like I heard once what it was, and since I didn't necessarily buy it I just looked at the overall affect instead, which I mentioned on the prior post, and actually, I lean towards it not pleasing me, but I don't know the entireity of the changes, nor am I likely to know.



panda124c -> (12/12/2001 1:50:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
Thanks for clearing up that FT thingy. About the other thing, your wish is granted in v7, but do you know what is the basis for it?
It could be an adjustment for the shot trap effect the Tiger mantel. The mantel did create a large shot trap between itself and the hull.



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