RE: Kamakazi Units (Full Version)

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Rainerle -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:06:53 PM)

Hi,
did you ever think of making up rules for ad hoc Kamikaze's before 44 ? When some pilots (even allied ones) decided to ram their damaged doomed planes into whatever crossed their path ? I think there have been such incidents !



barbarrossa -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:17:47 PM)

There were instances of this even as early as in the Solomons campaign, or at least there are "accounts" of planes hitting Allied ships "intentionally" before the tactic became widely used.

Morison in "The Two Ocean War" cites at least one.



pry -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:35:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

There were instances of this even as early as in the Solomons campaign, or at least there are "accounts" of planes hitting Allied ships "intentionally" before the tactic became widely used.

Morison in "The Two Ocean War" cites at least one.


The 1st case was December 7th 1941 at Pearl Harbor where a fatally damaged Japanese plane crashed into the seaplane tender Curtiss, This was the random act of one pilot made on the spur of the moment to take out just a few more as he died.

An organized tactic can be modeled (and is) but the spur of the moment actions of individuals based on unique set of circumstances at the time they happen can not.



Rainerle -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:39:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pry


An organized tactic can be modeled (and is) but the spur of the moment actions of individuals based on unique set of circumstances at the time they happen can not.

Really, why not ?
Everytime a plane during Air-Naval attack is downed during the last inbound AA run roll a die, modify using nationality, time etc. and apply extra damage or not.



GBirkn -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:39:54 PM)

In London, they just dug up the wreck of a British Hurricane that ran out of ammunition and then intentionally rammed a Luftwaffe bomber during the Blitz. This sort of thing probably goes back to WW I.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3762715.stm



pry -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:48:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GBirkn

In London, they just dug up the wreck of a British Hurricane that ran out of ammunition and then intentionally rammed a Luftwaffe bomber during the Blitz. This sort of thing probably goes back to WW I.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3762715.stm


Arrrg.. I Did not literally mean 1st time ever... rather the 1st time a plane intentionally crashed into a ship in the Pacific during WWII where it was to became a common tactic later on.



GBirkn -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 3:56:51 PM)

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that you had meant that as the first time ever, just to illustrate that desperate or shot-down pilots of other nationalities sometimes deliberately crashed their planes into targets as well. The Japanese may or may not have been more likely than other nations to do that; their deliberate kamikaze attacks by whole formations launched for that purpose were the really fundamental change.



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 4:00:04 PM)

During the battle of Midway Marine Captain Richard E. Flemming crashed his damaged SB2U 'Wind-Indicator' [:D] into Mikuma. Either by accident or deliberately is still debated though. I think most of you guys have seen the famous picture of Mikuma with a plane wreck sitting on top of the after 8-inch turret.



tsimmonds -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/4/2004 4:56:52 PM)

To simulate this type of ad hoc kamikaze attack, may I suggest using the MkI "JCYEAP" user interface.

Just Close Your Eyes And Pretend



rogueusmc -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/5/2004 7:15:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

To simulate this type of ad hoc kamikaze attack, may I suggest using the MkI "JCYEAP" user interface.

Just Close Your Eyes And Pretend

Looks like that was a thread stopper.....[:D]



Tomo -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/5/2004 4:34:56 PM)

One of the reason why many Japanese airplanes did a suicidal attack before Kamikaze is that, it is ULTRA shame to become a prisoner.
So, they had to die themselves to prevent be prisoners if the airplane got serious damages in enemy area.



Mike Scholl -> RE: Kamakazi Units (6/5/2004 6:38:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomo

One of the reason why many Japanese airplanes did a suicidal attack before Kamikaze is that, it is ULTRA shame to become a prisoner.
So, they had to die themselves to prevent be prisoners if the airplane got serious damages in enemy area.


Your English is certainly a lot better than our Japanese, so don't sweat the occasional
gramatic miss-step. And your point is valid in that it was more likely that a Pilot endoc-
trinated with the "Bushido Code" would make such a choice in action. Some flyers of
all nations seem to have decided on their own that "if I'm going to die, a few more on
the other side are going to die with me" in critical situations. But only Japan exaulted
the death before dishonor concept to such a degree as to make it a military policy.



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