Tedium? (Full Version)

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Moose 4075 -> Tedium? (6/6/2004 9:04:01 PM)

I have recently become interested in playing games about Normandy again so I got out my copy of Panzer Campaign Normandy '44. After getting very used to Uncommon Valor, Highway to the Reich and Combat Mission, there seems to be a lot of tedium in running a Panzer Campaign game. So I was wondering do the Decisive Battles games run smoother, with less of the Tedium?



John B -> RE: Tedium? (6/7/2004 10:29:27 PM)

Agreed. I just re-installed Normandy'44 myself, and after a couple of turns remembered why I never finished it. Particularly if you want to play the full campaign game, its just too unwieldy and long-winded to bother.[:(] I have high hopes of "Battles in Normandy" based on its predecessors in the series. With not much else available on the operational level except some "Op. Art of War" scenarios, which have problems of their own, I'm hoping this one will be the one I've been waiting for on a fascinating campaign.

John



benpark -> RE: Tedium? (6/7/2004 11:01:03 PM)

The game engine of the DB series is much better suited for operational scale than the PC series.

While I enjoy some of the smaller scenarios of PzC Nor '44, it getsphysically draining in the larger ones. The combat system seems basically flawed-the player "fires" (in company/battalion/regiment scale) at an enemy stack/unit. The enemy in turn "fires back". This system makes for a veeerrrryyy long combat result when 100's of units are involved. Then, as mentioned, there is the firing of individual ships/arty units/air strikes. As I said, this can be rewarding in the smaller scenarios-but I doubt that most gamers buy the game for those. The system works perfectly for the Squad Battles series, but seems oddly unsuited to operational scale.

Strong points of the PzC series? Tracking individual men and vehicles in casualties and unit strength, well researched OOB's, and great for micro management (if ya have a lot of time...).

I am quite sure that BiN will play in a more fluid manner. I am very happy with this game system.



Moose 4075 -> RE: Tedium? (6/8/2004 3:23:26 AM)

Thanks guys this is exactly what I was looking for; some folks that agree with me about Panzer Campaigns and their opinions on the Decisivie Battles series. Then hopefully, my opinion of Decisive Battles would track reasonably well with yours and thus I now have some idea that I should look seriously at buying this.



John Pancoast -> RE: Tedium? (6/8/2004 6:32:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moose 4075

I have recently become interested in playing games about Normandy again so I got out my copy of Panzer Campaign Normandy '44. After getting very used to Uncommon Valor, Highway to the Reich and Combat Mission, there seems to be a lot of tedium in running a Panzer Campaign game. So I was wondering do the Decisive Battles games run smoother, with less of the Tedium?



All the PzC games suffer from this imo. To small of scale for operational. A blend of Grand Tactical, and like most blends, does neither well.

The DB scale is much better.



elmo3 -> RE: Tedium? (6/8/2004 5:18:26 PM)

Some people do find the PzC series too complex. The DB series is simpler IMO.

Then again I generally prefer Guinness to, say, Labatts. It's great to sit down, relax, and savor a good rich ale. Then again after a hot day mowing the lawn there is nothing wrong with sucking down a few "cold ones". Both have their place in my fridge.

Both series have their place on my hard drive.



John Pancoast -> RE: Tedium? (6/8/2004 10:42:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Some people do find the PzC series too complex. The DB series is simpler IMO.

Then again I generally prefer Guinness to, say, Labatts. It's great to sit down, relax, and savor a good rich ale. Then again after a hot day mowing the lawn there is nothing wrong with sucking down a few "cold ones". Both have their place in my fridge.

Both series have their place on my hard drive.


Actually, I don't consider the PzC complex at all. Other way around in fact imo.



elmo3 -> RE: Tedium? (6/8/2004 11:16:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Pancoast

Actually, I don't consider the PzC complex at all. Other way around in fact imo.


Well as the saying goes: Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one.



hero_33 -> RE: Tedium? (6/12/2004 8:17:04 PM)

I agree that Korsun is more complicated than panzer campaigns, but then thats the series I started with. The learning curve for Korsun is large, but I like both games for different reasons. I innitially had a hard time grasping why I couldn't use arty before an assault, air strikes etc. in Korsun Pocket. I miss this element in Korsun but realize it's part of the battle results if I include it durring an assault. I just don't get the feeling that I am softening up the enemy if I include it. That's just me though.

Steve.



Moose 4075 -> RE: Tedium? (6/12/2004 9:10:56 PM)

Well, obviously there isn't 100% agreement on the subject. But, I think that I've been convinced to risk a few $ and buy BiN. So far my favorite operational/grand tactical scale game is HttR. It's barely large enough scale to qualify, but I like how the system really focuses on plan more than detail, but the detail is visible, when you want to take a look.

I haven't had much to do with the DB series except for reading about The Ardennes Offensive when it was new. I can't remember why I didn't buy it, but remember that it sounded great.



JSS -> RE: Tedium? (6/13/2004 2:02:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moose 4075

Well, obviously there isn't 100% agreement on the subject. But, I think that I've been convinced to risk a few $ and buy BiN. So far my favorite operational/grand tactical scale game is HttR. It's barely large enough scale to qualify, but I like how the system really focuses on plan more than detail, but the detail is visible, when you want to take a look.

I haven't had much to do with the DB series except for reading about The Ardennes Offensive when it was new. I can't remember why I didn't buy it, but remember that it sounded great.


Moose,

Don't think[:-], KNOW that you're getting BiN[:D]. It's beyond description how good this game will be.[&o]

All things considered KP (BiN by extension) is pretty easy to learn how to play... and to learn enough to be competitive. It absolutely is a plan over detail game. That said it still has enough detail in it to satisfy the hardest corps grognard.

JSS



Moose 4075 -> RE: Tedium? (6/13/2004 3:38:03 AM)

Wow! that's the most ringing endorsement I've heard for a wargame in a long while.

I just hope my budget can hold up through BiN, WitP, the new Airborne Assault game and Battlefields.



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