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Wallymanowar -> RE: ModSwapper & Panther Leo and What It Means (6/17/2004 8:33:16 AM)
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Great news David!! A long awaited utility for the game and a welcome addition to your designing team.
tmac:
quote:
I may be waaaay off base here, because I haven't delved into editing or swapping oob's etc at all playing the game, I have only played the stock game. But, can't a player right now (and apparently easier in the future with this modification) edit the oob to have the pricing format set like RB desires?
This wouldn't seem to be (here's where I go out on a limb speculating about things I don't know about) that hard to do, albeit a little tedious, but done once and posted, would be avalaible to all interested parties for PBEM play if desired? This may be a huge job, I don't know, to change all unit prices, but again, done once it would be available to all. There seems to be enough interest to entice a few volunteers to try. MG will post the stock version, and then modders out there can tweak to hearts content and then use new utility to swap them in easily.
Am I ignorant of issues that would prevent this?
Is it sour grapes to say MG didn't use the pricing system I prefer, if it is possible for me to change it?
Please don't interpret this as a personal attack on anyone, because it is not meant that way at all, and I may be just showing everyone how little I know about modding the oob. I clearly see RB and others pricing prefence having validity for evenly matched PBEM games. Is it that big a job to change it?
I'm interested in hearing your opinions, thanks
Tim
Trust me, since you've not delved into editing or swapping the oob's, this is a very welcome addition. Editing the oob's involves a lot of research and work and some little mistakes can cause a great deal of heartache. The ability to swap out oob's easily is something that I'm sure the oob editors have been waiting for for a long time. The idea of swapping out mods also allows a great deal of flexibility in order to experiment with different sets - a very good thing.
rdrunsman:
quote:
A performance based point system can be all things to all people. A rarity based system only satisfies historical accuracy fanatics.
If you want Midway or Barbarosa, you just set it up according to the historical situation as can easily be determined by referencing the right books. The cost of a unit has no bearing on the scenario creation.
Two PBEM players who want a fairly matched battle (and not caring about recreating a historical scenario) cannot do so with a rarity inspired point system.
When I want to recreate history I get a scenario. When I want to match my wits against someone else there has to be some way of knowing that we each have the same number of checkers. Don't we? A performance based point system does this. A rarity based system doesn't.
The rarity based people are imposing their will on everyone, even if they don't want the imposition. Performance based people see it as everyone can get what they want out of the game. I don't see why this is a tough concept for people to understand.
And, I'm annoyed that the Matrix folks alway just ignore this kind of inquiry. If performance based costs were good enough for SP1 to SPWAW v7.1, why change it now?
rb
The big problem with the performance based pricing system is that it doesn't satisfy the rarity based pricing nuts like myself and Les. Fortunately with this new modswapper we can develop our pricing systems and play the way we feel it should be played.[:)]
The idea behind using rarity priced units is in order to simulate historical forces. Les is incorrect in one respect, and that is that the Germans started out with more than the Russians or the French. The historical record shows that the Germans were outmatched by both the French and the Russians in both number and quality of tanks. The main advantage that the Germans had over the their enemies was in their superior use of tactics and the performance of their troops.
Now if you are interested in matching wits against an opponent in a game and you want to spend 1000 pts each on your units with a pricing system based on the performance of the units that is fine - it allows fair and balanced game. If you are interested in matching wits with an opponent based on a game which has a pricing system based on historical rarity then play as the Poles opposing the Germans in 1939 with infantry against tanks and defeat your enemy - this allows the satisfaction of knowing that even with the odds stacked against you you can win, even fighting your opponent to a draw gives you the feeling that you are better than your opponent. Balanced forces mean nothing unless you and your opponent are evenly matched in tactical skill as well and in this kind of match it is no better than a game of chess or checkers.
I believe that this is what Les feels as well - victory for people who like historical match-ups means doing better than the historical results. There is no feeling better for us than feeling that we can do better than the great generals of history, and a worthy opponent is one who feels the same way. Rarity pricing systems allow you to simulate hypothetical matchups based on the historical forces available to both sides - this is something that performance based pricing does not do.
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