CV refuling (Full Version)

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Onime No Kyo -> CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:37:04 PM)

A question has occured to me just now. REading the AARs from Raver and Luskan makes me wonder how Luskan manages to move his CV forces in such a dashing manner. Is there a huge AO TF tagging along, or is it simply a matter of moving slowly enough to conserve fuel. In UV, this has always been a problem for me. CV TFs seem to have very short legs. Keeping them "on station" becomes nearly impossible after a week or so.



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:38:56 PM)

KB does have a fleet train at the start of the game. Its handy for a top off after picking on Hawaii



Onime No Kyo -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:46:28 PM)

Being the ignoramus that I am, I simply have no idea how far a CV TF could go. I know that 7th Fleet had a massive train, but have no clue how often they had to resort to it.



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:47:42 PM)

I actually didn't need the Tankers for my current game, but thats because i topped off at Truk before going.........somewhere [;)]



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:48:45 PM)

quote:

I actually didn't need the Tankers for my current game, but thats because i topped off at Truk before going.........somewhere


Bet you Truk is looking pretty dry right now [:D]



Onime No Kyo -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:52:32 PM)

OK, same question. I know you can get from, say, Truk to Noumea on one tank of gas. But if KB is heading out of the Inland Sea, how far can they expect to get before the fuel light goes on?



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:53:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

I actually didn't need the Tankers for my current game, but thats because i topped off at Truk before going.........somewhere


Bet you Truk is looking pretty dry right now [:D]


nope



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:55:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

OK, same question. I know you can get from, say, Truk to Noumea on one tank of gas. But if KB is heading out of the Inland Sea, how far can they expect to get before the fuel light goes on?


Depends on the route taken. Remember KB took a long northernly route to avoid commercial lanes and had to deal with the weather as well. They used the FT first to refuel 'before' the attack.

If they made a beeline they could probably go most of the way to Oahu before needing to top off the DD's. (i havn't tested it so cant give you an 'exact' figure...sorry)



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:58:16 PM)

quote:

Depends on the route taken. Remember KB took a long northernly route to avoid commercial lanes and had to deal with the weather as well. They used the FT first to refuel 'before' the attack.


Also depends on the speed setting. Full eats fuel a lot quicker then cruise.



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 10:59:05 PM)

quote:

OK, same question. I know you can get from, say, Truk to Noumea on one tank of gas. But if KB is heading out of the Inland Sea, how far can they expect to get before the fuel light goes on?


Truk to Noumea is not happening without tankers unless you like one way trips.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:01:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

A question has occured to me just now. REading the AARs from Raver and Luskan makes me wonder how Luskan manages to move his CV forces in such a dashing manner. Is there a huge AO TF tagging along, or is it simply a matter of moving slowly enough to conserve fuel. In UV, this has always been a problem for me. CV TFs seem to have very short legs. Keeping them "on station" becomes nearly impossible after a week or so.


It also helps that huge fleets like KB can zip into a size 1 "port" (fishing wharf with a drum and pump system) which somehow has huge fuel reserves to refuel/rearm in a turn and zoom out. One of the few remaining logistical anomalies which exist are the naval base issues (capacity/operations limits/logistic restrictions), apparently to assist the AI. I'd like to see this changed somehow...



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:04:51 PM)

any large stocks of fuel and supply dumped onto a Size 1 port will suffer "spoilage"



kaleun -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:16:01 PM)

Now that is impressive attention to detail.[&o]
Can't wait for release.
Can't wait for release.
Can't wait for release>[:@]



Xargun -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:35:45 PM)

added to FAQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

any large stocks of fuel and supply dumped onto a Size 1 port will suffer "spoilage"


This has been mentioned before, but I don't think in much degree. DO all supplies / Fuel suffer spoillage ? What about oil and resources ? How much spoilage do they suffer ? Is it dependant on base size ? If so, can we get some examples ?

This isn't that big of a deal for the Allies and their unliited supplies, but it will matter for Japan.

Thanks Again,

Xargun



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:39:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

any large stocks of fuel and supply dumped onto a Size 1 port will suffer "spoilage"


This has been mentioned before, but I don't think in much degree. DO all supplies / Fuel suffer spoillage ? What about oil and resources ? How much spoilage do they suffer ? Is it dependant on base size ? If so, can we get some examples ?

This isn't that big of a deal for the Allies and their unliited supplies, but it will matter for Japan.

Thanks Again,

Xargun


Oil and Resource dont suffer spoilage. The rate of spoilage is dependant on port/airfield size in ratio to the amount of supply/fuel being dumped so the more lopsided the figure the greater the spoilage. Sorry, dont have the exact formula on me.



Damien Thorn -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun
This has been mentioned before, but I don't think in much degree. DO all supplies / Fuel suffer spoillage ? What about oil and resources ? How much spoilage do they suffer ? Is it dependant on base size ? If so, can we get some examples ?

This isn't that big of a deal for the Allies and their unliited supplies, but it will matter for Japan.

Thanks Again,

Xargun


I doubt there would be spoilage for oil and resources, as these are the raw state for fuel and supply.
I too would like to know what are the max levels of fuel and supply at a base before 'spoilage' kicks in. I'd also like to know if it is a % per turn that spoils or a flat rate. I think spoilage will hurt the Japanese player a LOT more than the allied player because I assume the allies will be able to build up bases much quicker than the Japanese.



kaleun -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:43:46 PM)

It will simulate well what would happen if large amounts of fuel and supplies are stored in an inadequate size base. i.e. pilferage, black market etc[&o][&o]



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/16/2004 11:53:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn


I doubt there would be spoilage for oil and resources, as these are the raw state for fuel and supply.
I too would like to know what are the max levels of fuel and supply at a base before 'spoilage' kicks in. I'd also like to know if it is a % per turn that spoils or a flat rate. I think spoilage will hurt the Japanese player a LOT more than the allied player because I assume the allies will be able to build up bases much quicker than the Japanese.


Yes, it will. The Allied player enjoys UNLIMITED supply and fuel. His/Her challenge is getting it from the west coast to the front lines. (major ongoing headache) Japan, as i am quickly discovering, has very finite sources of supply and fuel. Gives me the heebe jeebies just thinking about it. [X(]



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:00:55 AM)

Spoilage effects are only on bases smaller then size 10 (airfield+port).

This is to get rid of the UV crap of dumping on dots to turn around bombardment groups and subs and such nonsense [;)]



Damien Thorn -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:04:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Spoilage effects are only on bases smaller then size 10 (airfield+port).

This is to get rid of the UV crap of dumping on dots to turn around bombardment groups and subs and such nonsense [;)]


Hey, don't know it. That was a great tactic to rearm your subs. I did it all the time and never felt bad about it because it helped (in part) make up for the fact that my subs ALWAYS had to fire a full salvo at every single target. It was stupid to go halfway across the pacific and only get three shots.



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:07:43 AM)

quote:

That was a great tactic to rearm your subs.


Yep, now you need a AS in the port AND supplies AND fuel. There are just so many things you'll need to unlearn [:D]



Ron Saueracker -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:08:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Spoilage effects are only on bases smaller then size 10 (airfield+port).

This is to get rid of the UV crap of dumping on dots to turn around bombardment groups and subs and such nonsense [;)]


Hey, don't know it. That was a great tactic to rearm your subs. I did it all the time and never felt bad about it because it helped (in part) make up for the fact that my subs ALWAYS had to fire a full salvo at every single target. It was stupid to go halfway across the pacific and only get three shots.


I thought about changing the way sub tubes were set up in the dbase so that 4 torps would be the max fired but did not as this was not my place.[:-]



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:10:31 AM)

quote:

I thought about changing the way sub tubes were set up in the dbase so that 4 torps would be the max fired but did not as this was not my place.


I always chuckled about that one. People complain about the number of torpedoes fired but the very first thing they do is turn OFF Japanese Sub Doctrine which limits the numbers fired based on the target. [;)]



kaleun -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:23:26 AM)

This of course brings up a question: Exactly how will japanese sub doctrine be modeled?
If I place a japanese sub in a sea lane, and an AP or AK comes by, with doctrine on, will it attack it? What if it is escorted by say a DD, will it attack the AP or the DD?
(scratching head vigorously)



Mr.Frag -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:38:19 AM)

Well documented in the manual as to exactly what the effects are.



kaleun -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:45:56 AM)

Would that be the stealth mistery manual that we are all clamoring for?
(Less loudly than for the game, of course)[;)]



Nikademus -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:50:04 AM)

If toggled "on" IJN subs will be far less likely to attack merchant ships vs warship targets. If off they attack all targets of opportunity. Most players toggle it off because Japanese sub doctrine was set by how the Japanese historically deployed their subs. Japanese sub commanders were perfectly willing to attack a merchant if it crossed their paths.



kaleun -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 12:55:10 AM)

thx



siRkid -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 1:22:11 AM)

Spoilage

Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *1000 ) suffers spoilage.

Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.

Any base with combined port and airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage



byron13 -> RE: CV refuling (6/17/2004 2:32:43 AM)

These formulae determines how much fuel and supply is subject to spoilage, but what is the formula for determining how much of the affected fuel and supply is lost in a turn? Or is it 100%?



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