Great warmovie! (Full Version)

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alassi -> Great warmovie! (12/26/2001 7:57:00 AM)

I saw this great movie last week, its Cross of Iron. I can recommend it warmly, if youré interested in Eastern Front. I did thought about a scenario based on this movie! Just like WB:s Saving Private Ryan scenario, which was great fun! Imaging playing Steiner and his men, cut off, behind enemy lines, and how they struggle to get back to their own lines..



asgrrr -> (12/26/2001 8:54:00 AM)

It's a hot one, no question about that. The run up to the MG nest is perhaps the most riveting war scene I have ever seen. A private Diets sir!



HARPOON -> (12/26/2001 9:33:00 AM)

I always regarded Cross of Iron the greatest war movie ever made. The message, the historically correct weapons and uniforms, the nurse, the actors, the plot, directed by Sam Peckinpah, the nurse(I really liked her)and just about everything about the movie. I managed to obtain a manufactured copy of the movie, through incredible means. Which is the most valued video I own.



RichardTheFirst -> (12/26/2001 9:48:00 AM)

I don't know if I saw that one but it reminded me a great war stories writer: Sven Hassel. Have you read him? His Panzer Disciplinary Batallion characters are just great: Sven, Porta, The old man, Heide, The Legionary, Barcelona, etc. And the stories, wow: what realism, horror, black humour,... Most of the books are from Eastern Front. One could find great material for scenarios in Sven Hassel's books.



asgrrr -> (12/26/2001 10:05:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:

His Panzer Disciplinary Batallion characters are just great: Sven, Porta, The old man, Heide, The Legionary, Barcelona, etc. And the stories, wow: what realism, horror, black humour,... Most of the books are from Eastern Front.
I read his books hard when I was younger. One thing always bothered me though. There were no punishment panzer units... or what? If Sven Hassel did participate it was most likely as an SS volunteer.



Redleg -> (12/26/2001 11:21:00 AM)

Good old Gunner Asche! Loved those books. I wish I could see Cross of Iron again....



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (12/27/2001 7:39:00 AM)

If you liked Cross of Iron you would possibly like the sequel alas only exists as a book though. I agree though, one of the better portrayals of down in dirty combat. Accuracy...well I guess a nit picker could find fault if they looked hard enough. But I always liked the part where the T-34's are over running the place. Pity is they just dont make films like they used to. Modern film is to wrapped up in splash and glitz, so the gritty war movie seems dead. My collection has a lot of fine examples of great films with no really excessive combat special effects. Its amazing how far down the list of priorities, just good acting has been pushed. Most treasured I find are some of the films made actually during or very near the end of the second world war when they had bonafide soldiers to film (first example that comes to mind is Gung Ho, real marines used for the film of the Makin island attack). No one will have trouble agreeing I hope, that only someone that has been a soldier can really truely portray one credibly.



asgrrr -> (12/27/2001 9:37:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
If you liked Cross of Iron you would possibly like the sequel alas only exists as a book though.
There was a film sequel made: Breakthrough, starring Richard Burton as Steiner. It sucks



wulfir -> (12/27/2001 11:47:00 AM)

Cross of Iron is one of the best!
So is the book (Das Geduldige Fleisch) by Willi Heinrich. But Sven Hassel…
They made a movie (I think) of one of Sven Hassels books. Don’t know the English title but in Sweden it was called “Döden på Larvfötter” (Death on tank treads?).
I have read some of Hassels war novels and personally I have serious doubts about the author. If you wish to find flaws in his books about his band of invincible criminals, no problemo – they are everywhere. Take his book Monte Cassino; it includes (to mention a few odd things) US Marines spearheading the invasion of Italy 1943 with at least one Leatherneck wielding a captured Samurai-sword! Not bad. The unit of the main character is a fictious penal formation, the 26th or 27th Panzer Punishment Regiment (like such a thing would ever have existed). Can’t imagine the Germans would have wasted any tanks on equipping a penal formation but these guys drive around in Panthers. Not always though, they like to switch to infantry duties now and again and sometimes they are sent on special missions like a raid into the Vatican.
At the end of the book they participate in the final battle of Monte Cassino at the Abbey and are forced to fight a horde of allied troops with tank support (don’t think many tanks came cruising on that mountain) - Brits, Ghurkhas, French Moroccans – just about every nationality except the Poles who really led the final attacks on Cassino. If you are looking for realism, I would not recommend Sven Hassel. Maybe our Danish comrades can provide some information about him. [ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Wulfir ]



Redleg -> (12/27/2001 1:44:00 PM)

I went to the video rental today. I didn't think they would have Cross of Iron. They didn't. I agree, "Breakthrough" wasn't my cup of tea, either. Just watched World At War #9 Stalingrad today. Some really outstanding film clips.... HBO production. I think they also have a film about the Winter War which I am desperate to see.



RichardTheFirst -> (12/27/2001 4:31:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wulfir:
[QB]If you are looking for realism, I would not recommend Sven Hassel. Maybe our Danish comrades can provide some information about him.
Well agree, and I always found him a bit fantasist. But great story teller with great characters and episodes. I said realism not historical accuracy.



AC -> (12/27/2001 7:13:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
Well agree, and I always found him a bit fantasist. But great story teller with great characters and episodes. I said realism not historical accuracy.
Well, given that many of us - and surely myself too - really do not know what realism on the battlefield really is: I didn't find Sven Hassel neither historical nor realistic. Two weeks ago I found some 6-7 volumes in my favourite bookstore and decided to read firstly one instead of buying them alltogether. I'm happy I did so, because I found the book (title "Germany kaputt") very poor from all sides of view.
First of all, there was no battle scene described in a detailed manner. Second, we all know that soldiers sometimes act like criminals, but Sven Hassels party does it all the time, even killing their own comrades, repeatedly?!!?
Third, as someone said before, a punishment company that gets Panthers? On a certain point, they lose them, and on the very next day they got new ones. Well, I think that's not so realistic.
I'm surely not gonna spend any extra money ion this.
Just my 2 cents. AC



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (12/27/2001 10:21:00 PM)

If ya wants a good read and are not afraid to put aside history for a fun read, nothing beats Leo Kessler books. They read like the German units are the much maligned gungho americans in battle. Is a fun difference though to read of german units that are not overly supermen but just soldiers being soldiers. What might not be known, but I cant imagine anyone on here not knowing, is that the historian Charles Whiting is the same person as the name Leo Kessler (which is just his name used with his action novels).



Panzer Capta -> (12/28/2001 12:28:00 AM)

Cross of Iron was truely an incredible movie. I think it was the first movie on the war in Russia that i ever experienced. I thought the character of Steiner was wonderfully portrayed...as was the ferocity of battle. On the subject of film pertaining to the war in Russia: I just watched the movie "Come and See". The movie won first prize at the Moscow Film Festival....and after seeing it, i am not surprised. Although this is not a "shoot em up" movie, it will leave you with images of the war between Russia and Germany that you will NEVER forget! It captures the purely horrific aspects of war like no other i have seen. It is a Russian film (English subtitles), and it naturally depicts the atrocities against the Russian people. Dont miss this one.



asgrrr -> (12/28/2001 3:09:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Captain:
[QB]
I just watched the movie "Come and See".
Although this is not a "shoot em up" movie, it will leave you with images of the war between Russia and Germany that you will NEVER forget! [QB]
Agree with that. I saw this film back in 1987, and it is quite likely THE best film of any kind I have ever seen. Don't know if I would have the stomach to watch it again, seems I am getting less brave in my old age (31).



Larry Holt -> (12/28/2001 3:11:00 AM)

I read Sven Hassel's books when I was in high school in the '70s so I can not recall all the details of his life. He wrote his first book based on his real experiences as a Dane in the German forces. It sold well enough that he decided to write a series fictionalizing adventures of the real life characters in book 1. He even resurrected one soldier (was it Porta with the yellow top hat?) who had died in book 1. He appeared without comment in the later books.



bobaloo000 -> (12/28/2001 5:40:00 AM)

Originally posted this in the General Discussion forum, but if you like War Video's go to: www.belleandblade.com If you like war video's check out the web site above. I believe there is an opportunity for Matrix to cross promote with these folks. I have the paper catalog it includes such gems as: Zulu
Stalingrad - the original
God is My Co-Pilot and over 160 pages of other titles, including documentaries, and some books. I have no interest in these folks, just thought others might be interested.



bobaloo000 -> (12/28/2001 5:42:00 AM)

Just did a search for Cross of Iron from the site above. This is what I got back: CROSS OF IRON (1977-British/West German.) HHHH War film told from the viewpoint of Germans on the Russian front in 1943. One of the best of the eastern front movies, since only Stalingrad, Attack and Retreat, and the Russian Liberation tapes address the issue. 133 minutes.
WX58 - Price: $29.98



Wild Bill -> (12/28/2001 6:13:00 AM)

I've been collecting "War" Movies since VCRs first came out in the early 80s. To date I have about 300 or so, including many on WW2. There are just not that many on the East Front, but the ones that are out there are generally very good. Now as for documentaries, I've been able to collect over 200 of them. Some of the very best in general terms are the Battlefield Series on WW2 and Vietnam. They even did one on Korea...excellent stuff. If you ever want "the big picture" of the key battles in WW2, you must see and if feasible, own these. THey include France 1940, Stalingrad, Midway, Normandy, Kursk, Berlin, The Atlantic, Battle of the Rhine, NOrth Africa and more. IF you love history like I do, you'll learn a lot from these videos. Wild Bill



wulfir -> (12/28/2001 6:43:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
I read Sven Hassel's books when I was in high school in the '70s so I can not recall all the details of his life. He wrote his first book based on his real experiences as a Dane in the German forces. It sold well enough that he decided to write a series fictionalizing adventures of the real life characters in book 1. He even resurrected one soldier (was it Porta with the yellow top hat?) who had died in book 1. He appeared without comment in the later books.
I’m not really an expert on Sven Hassel but I believe there is an other Danish author who is out to crusade him and claims he was/is no more than a fraud who liked to dress up in a Danish army uniform, stole bicycles during the war and did some work for the Germans. He is supposed to have acquired his east front experience while in prison with former Danish Waffen SS volunteers. He also claim that Hassel only wrote the first book himself. The others are to have been written by a lady-friend of his, a former prostitute.(?) True or not, I think his books should only be read if the reader is out to get a good laugh.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (12/29/2001 6:22:00 AM)

Man I sure would like to compare our video libraries Bill.
Your numbers are about the same as mine only reverse order. I have more documentaries than films. But then I stopped getting war movies when they looked too Hollywood and not enough grit.



skyraider -> (12/29/2001 8:47:00 AM)

Cross Of Iron is a great movie. I thought some of the actors, such as Coburn and Mason, were way to old for their parts. still, I liked it. I read Willi Hedrich's book, which the film is based on, some time after I saw the movie. That's where I most of my opinion of the actors came from. I have plenty of "fav" war movies. But here are a few: "Battleground", "Go tell the Spartans", "The Bridge", "Castle Keep", and "Kelly's Heroes". Getting back to COI, if you haven't already, read the book.



Aggrajag -> (12/29/2001 9:51:00 AM)

I also love the Cross of Iron (I'm not much of a Peckinpah fan otherwise..) but does anyone here like Band of Brothers? I thought that was the kind style warmovies (and TV series in this case) should be like: very realistic, almost even naturalistic at some points and without the "USA is the greatest" kind of storytelling that Saving Private Ryan had. Comments from the older members are especially appreciated. Oh, and I saw U-571 and Pearl Harbor for the first time on DVD yesterday. I am not sure what I should say but warmovies shouldn't be like those two are. First one rewrites history and the other one was just horrible (apart from the effects). I haven't been in this board for a long time so have missed the comments about BoB. And this is my first post! Nice



Charles2222 -> (12/29/2001 10:11:00 AM)

skyraider: Mason's role was a general, was he not? There's been plenty of generals that age, if that's the role he was playing. As well, even Coburn's age wasn't too bad, because he was playing the role of a very grizzled veteran, and considering how the Germans came to fighting with men considerably older and younger than what they started out with, even that wasn't too terribly unlikely. Perhaps that's the reason the story also called for that very young private to enter their team, to show how the opposite ends of the age of soldiers started to be used more and more.



usmcbob -> (12/29/2001 10:31:00 AM)

I was stationed at the American Embassy in Vienna Austria in 1979 when i think it was Stiener part 2 the Cross of Iron was filmed. The Marines all had parts in the movie as part of the German solders. The Marines a few days later played parts of American troops. Some even got to say a few lines. Never did get to see the movie as i returned to the states before the showing. We also had parts in the movie i think it was called "The boys from Brazil" about the secret cloning of Hitler look alikes.



BAR -> (12/29/2001 10:50:00 AM)

Hi all - going to check out the Belle and Blades site soon, but have a question for all of you. We have been racking our brains these last 3 weeks for the name of the movie about the Huertgen Forest battles. Friends said that it was a fantastic take, but can't remember the name! Any help would be appreciated. Back to cleaning the Garand, have a match tommorrow. Thanks all.



Rick Borovec -> (12/29/2001 12:38:00 PM)

Are you refering to the HBO Movie "A Time for Trumpets"?



asgrrr -> (12/29/2001 12:54:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
skyraider: Mason's role was a general, was he not?
Well, everything suggested he was commanding a regiment, hence a colonel. "Steiner, why are you so ungrateful?" Would you imagine this uttered at a general staff?



skyraider -> (12/29/2001 1:17:00 PM)

Charles_22: Mason was playing a colonel, the C.O. of Steiner's regiment. IIRC, in the book Steiner's and Colonel's friendship goes back to to when the colonel was a captain, about three years before. I got the impression from the book that they were still under 40. anyway, it's not the first time producers and directors change a book for the sake of their "vision." I think that using older actors playing made some sense to the producers and the director at the time. The "experienced" look about them has the appearance through a war. Anybody see a movie made in around '79 with Steiner played by Richard Burton and Robert Mitchum as a US Colonel? It wasn't very good.



tracer -> (12/29/2001 3:24:00 PM)

Oh man, now you've brought up a painful memory: I remember seeing that 'Steiner-2' movie, Breakthough, on HBO in the 80's. To tie that stinker in any way to Cross of Iron borders on sacrilege. That rediculous climax where the Germans tried to destroy the American tanks by luring them into a town square rigged with explosives...the screenwriter must have been on drugs I *think* the ATG's they used in that scene were real 50mm PAKs, which is the only positive I can recall.



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