Aircraft data table (Full Version)

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KevH -> Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 2:06:14 AM)

Whilst waiting, I have created a csv file (from MS Excel) containing aircraft data using screenshots kindly posted in another thread. Open in Excel and use filtering to find the best and the worst aircraft in the game (and my mistakes).

Its midnight here it North Wales. [>:] Thanks to Erik for the update, we can now get some shuteye in preparation for some long campaigns ahead.

Kev



highblooded -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 2:25:23 AM)

Thank You very much!



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 2:31:54 AM)

Most usefull thread all day...
Thank for taking the time to do this for the community.



BoerWar -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 3:53:39 AM)

This is handy. Thank you very much.



stinger5050 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 4:02:56 AM)

Thanks



Arnir -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 4:04:09 AM)

Mucho gracias



brisd -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 5:48:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Most usefull thread all day...
Thank for taking the time to do this for the community.


One of the FEW useful threads these past few days. Thanks KevH!



KG_laugi -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 5:52:27 AM)

how do i do to send to exel?



mc3744 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 12:12:31 PM)

Thanks a lot.
Useful for playing ... and for killing time while waiting [:D]



Jonny_B -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 12:23:48 PM)

[:)][:)][:)]

Mr. KG_laugi:

Open file, from this forum.
Right mouse click on file page, scroll down the list until you reach, Export to Microsoft Excel. Left mouse click on this option.

If you have excel, nbsa.



nico71 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 12:33:51 PM)

Can anyone explain me the Mvr-Tab? If it is just the turn rate, many values are way off!



PlacidDragon -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 12:37:10 PM)

I would imagine its short for manouver, the spesific plane's "agility" in general.



nico71 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 1:05:55 PM)

That's the problem! What does it tell me? So how do I read the table properly to interpret the "combat strength" of an aircraft in the game? I mean, the agility alone does hardly reflect its capabilities! Does the F6F (Mvr 36) really turn better than a A6M2 (Mvr 35)? Some types are designed for dogfights, others for BnZ. I had this problem in BTR as well. I think it's more than just the agility, but I don't know what exactly it is! How is the firing power determined? Mass output per second? I wonder how such a complex thing like air combat can be simulated with stats, tables and formulas. This is all too abstract for me! [:)]



KevH -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 2:17:02 PM)

It would be nice to know the importance weighting of the different attributes. Perhaps there is a section in the manual covering this area?

I would GUESS that the importance depends on the combat situation. i.e. Rate of Climb is important for fighters on CAP. Higher Gun power is useful for causing damage to aircaft with better durablity.

Kev



JohnK -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 3:11:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nico71

That's the problem! What does it tell me? So how do I read the table properly to interpret the "combat strength" of an aircraft in the game? I mean, the agility alone does hardly reflect its capabilities! Does the F6F (Mvr 36) really turn better than a A6M2 (Mvr 35)? Some types are designed for dogfights, others for BnZ. I had this problem in BTR as well. I think it's more than just the agility, but I don't know what exactly it is! How is the firing power determined? Mass output per second? I wonder how such a complex thing like air combat can be simulated with stats, tables and formulas. This is all too abstract for me! [:)]


I should hope Mvr is more than just turn rate, as the turn rate of aircraft continually DECLINED from 1939 to 1945 :-)


The F6F had a much better ROLL rate, as did all American aircraft (especially at high speeds) as the A6M2. For an intelligent pilot, that actually matters more than maximum turn rate.


All sorts of things should go into "Mvr" other than who can turn the tightest.....climb rate, roll rate, turn radius at high speeds (often much different relatively from turn radius at low speeds) etc.



nico71 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 3:49:56 PM)

quote:

I should hope Mvr is more than just turn rate, as the turn rate of aircraft continually DECLINED from 1939 to 1945 :-)


While speed and fire power have increased! This is what makes this factor so confusing!

quote:


The F6F had a much better ROLL rate, as did all American aircraft (especially at high speeds) as the A6M2. For an intelligent pilot, that actually matters more than maximum turn rate.


And even more important the speed, climb rate and fire power. And ideal BnZ aircraft! I really don't want to engage into a dogfight against a Zero with this 6.5 tons monster! LOL! In this regard I wonder why the Rata has such an incredibly high climb rate and a very poor manouver-value! This winged beer can can turn on a dime, but is rather slow.

quote:


All sorts of things should go into "Mvr" other than who can turn the tightest.....climb rate, roll rate, turn radius at high speeds (often much different relatively from turn radius at low speeds) etc.


All of this condensed into a single number! Cool! [:D][;)]



Damien Thorn -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 6:28:26 PM)

In SeeKreig, maneuverability was: square root of ((wing area / empty weight) * 0.178). This was the minimum speed that the plane could make a 2G turn. Maneuverability was then put into another formulato find overall offensive rating.



pad152 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:15:50 PM)

Aircraft data incomplete???

I see only one KI-43 (Ki-43-Ib) there were two (KI-43-I, KI-43-II).
Even UV had two!!![X(]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:20:15 PM)

trouble with trusting screen shot data ... people scroll a little too far at times. [:D]



Xargun -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:35:01 PM)

Remember to take all the data with a grain of salt. I, for one, have no idea how they came up with these numbers - but they are probably based on average performance by the aircraft. Also, some categories are lumped into one - like Maneuver - its probably turn speed, turn ration, etc... Its an abstract number.

As for the difference between a 35 and 36 maneuverability.. Its only 1 point - not much difference. BUt a 35 attacking a 12 ? The plane with the 12 is dogmeat... I personally think one of the important ratings is Guns - a lot of Japanese planes just don't have the firepower of their US counterparts and that means a lot - My Zeke looses a wing, while your Hellcat gets a few holes in it.

Xargun

PS Fo a bomber killed - you would probably want good climb rate and firepower.. Its not hard to hit a B17 or such with bullets - but if the bullets are that powerful....



Arnir -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:36:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

In SeeKreig, maneuverability was: square root of ((wing area / empty weight) * 0.178). This was the minimum speed that the plane could make a 2G turn. Maneuverability was then put into another formulato find overall offensive rating.



I'll probably kick myself when you tell me, but what is SeeKreig?



Damien Thorn -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:49:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arnir
I'll probably kick myself when you tell me, but what is SeeKreig?


http://www.seekrieg.com/



nico71 -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 7:51:45 PM)

It's interesting to see that wargamers deal with tables day in and day out, but I'm astonished that no one can give me a definite answer. [X(] I have feared that I was the only one who doesn't really understand this stuff. Good to know that I'm not alone here! LOL! Okay, it seems that I simply have to believe the numbers. After all it's not a flight sim, and it's all about dice rolling and probabilities. [;)] But I still don't know how to determine the aircraft capabilities, especially when comparing aircraft types! I haven't found this information in BTR and UV either.



Arnir -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:04:53 PM)

Thanks.



Subchaser -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:14:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Aircraft data incomplete???

I see only one KI-43 (Ki-43-Ib) there were two (KI-43-I, KI-43-II).
Even UV had two!!![X(]


There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.

[image]local://upfiles/7985/Ki183088666.jpg[/image]



Damien Thorn -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:36:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.



So it's easy, we just have to look at the pictures and figure out which one is not on the list. [:)]



Oznoyng -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:40:09 PM)

Okay, now that I am slicing and dicing this info with a spreadsheet... Can you post something on the upgrade paths?



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:44:50 PM)

Here's Japan:

ID Name Upg
1 A5M4 Claude 3
2 A6M2-N Rufe
3 A6M2 Zero 5
4 A6M3 Zero 5
5 A6M5 Zeke 6
6 A6M8 Zeke 7
7 A7M2 Reppu
9 N1K1-J George 11
10 J2M Jack 11
11 J7W Shinden
12 J1N1-S Irving 13
13 C6N1-S Myrt
15 D1A Susie 16
16 D3A Val 17
17 D4Y Judy
18 A6M5c Zeke
20 B4U Jean 21
21 B5N Kate 22
22 B6N Jill 23
23 B7A Grace
25 G3M Nell 26
26 G4M1 Betty 27
27 G4M2 Betty
28 G4M2e Betty
29 P1Y Frances
31 J1N1-R Irving 33
32 C5M Babs 31
33 C6N Myrt
35 H6K4 Mavis 36
36 H8K Emily
38 H6K2-L Mavis
39 L1N1 Thora
40 L3Y Tina
41 E14Y1 Glen
42 E8N Dave 44
43 F1M2 Pete
44 E13A1 Jake
45 E7K2 Alf
47 Ki-27 Nate 49
48 Ki-43-Ib Oscar 55
49 Ki-43-IIa Oscar 49
50 Ki-44-IIb Tojo 56
51 Ki-45 KAIa Nick 53
52 Ki-45 KAIb Nick 59
53 Ki-45 KAIc Nick
54 Ki-46-III KAI Dinah 59
55 Ki-61 KAIc Tony 58
56 Ki-84-Ia Frank 57
57 Ki-84-Ic Frank
58 Ki-100 Tony
59 Ki-102a Randy
61 Ki-60 Ann 63
62 Ki-32 Mary 65
63 Ki-51 Sonia
64 Ki-21 Sally 67
65 Ki-48 Lily 59
66 Ki-49 Helen 67
67 Ki-67 Peggy
68 Ki-46-III Dinah
69 Ki-46-II Dinah 68
70 Ki-15 Babs 69
71 Ki-36 Ida
72 Ki-57-II Topsy
73 Ki-59 Theresa 75
74 MC-21 Sally
75 Ki-54 Hickory



Subchaser -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:53:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.



So it's easy, we just have to look at the pictures and figure out which one is not on the list. [:)]


So take it as some kind of a quiz…go figure! [;)]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aircraft data table (7/1/2004 8:57:37 PM)

quote:

So take it as some kind of a quiz…go figure!


All you need to know is the 12th row, 3rd over is the one aircraft that you will learn to hate Japan for. [:D]



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