Prime infantry issue still alive (Full Version)

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asgrrr -> Prime infantry issue still alive (12/27/2001 5:41:00 AM)

Just wanted to make it clear that this is still not sorted out. Units with more than one weapon of this type still act like every man is firing two or more weapons. There were some assurances given recently that this was not the case, but I just tested the soviet ski troops. They have an SMG in slot 4, and this weapon repeatedly gave up to 6 kills per shot. There are several more units still going around with this license to kill twice.
Finally, I suggest that carthage should be destroyed.



Warrior -> (12/27/2001 6:43:00 AM)

So, they're elite troops and good shots, what's the problem? It's obvious you should avoid them if possible.



asgrrr -> (12/27/2001 7:19:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
So, they're elite troops and good shots, what's the problem? It's obvious you should avoid them if possible.
It is obvious by now you should think more and speak less.



Warrior -> (12/27/2001 10:45:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
It is obvious by now you should think more and speak less.
It appears the game will never be good enough for you. May God grant you the serenity to accept the things you cannot change. [ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]



asgrrr -> (12/27/2001 11:50:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

It appears the game will never be good enough for you. May God grant you the serenity to accept the things you cannot change.
[ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]

You are right about one thing. I do want to move this game as close to perfection as possible. So far, I am proud to know my nitpicking has resulted in changes in small ways so don't tell me what I can and cannot change. You on the other hand seem content with whatever is given to you. That is just fine, but if you really want to know what I think of such pointless and idle comments as the one above, refer to this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=007827



Jack -> (12/27/2001 12:18:00 PM)

Penetrator,
You get more flys with honey than vinigar. Warrior has contributed greatly to SPWAW, show some respect. That means don't be an a-hole.



Redleg -> (12/27/2001 1:38:00 PM)

Seems like some nerve-endings are easily frayed. I personally don't have much problem with some of the things like a SMG that seems too deadly. After having used heaven-only-knows how many different OOBs (every one of which sets off a new firestorm of criticism), I have decided to shut up about the things I don't like/agree with and accept things the way they are. I sincerely hope that the "official" oobs will be subjected to no more than one additional audit and adjustments. I would like to play (enjoy) the game after so many months of things being in a state of flux. Some OOB changes seem to me to be a retrograde movement. ;-)



Richard Harris -> (12/27/2001 6:23:00 PM)

A possible solution to this involves a bit of simple hacking of the OOB's.
Duplicate the offending weapon(s) and set the duplicate's class to '02- Secondary Infantry'. Then ensure that the units that have these extra weapons in slots 2-4 have the class 02 weapons in there. I think you'll find this fixes the problem.



asgrrr -> (12/27/2001 11:05:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Harris:
A possible solution to this involves a bit of simple hacking of the OOB's.
Duplicate the offending weapon(s) and set the duplicate's class to '02- Secondary Infantry'. Then ensure that the units that have these extra weapons in slots 2-4 have the class 02 weapons in there. I think you'll find this fixes the problem.
That is obviously the solution, and what I have done long ago with my own files. But it is little help in playing anyone else than the computer, as usually it is insisted that the files be unmodified.
Generally speaking, it mystifies me how this bug has survived so long considering that it is so easy to fix. Probably the belief that it has already been fixed, which has presented itself many times on these pages, is the greatest contributing factor.
And yes, a group of men, each firing two weapons at once, is a bug. Concerning certain other comments, I think it is probably not in the public interest to discuss them at this point.



Mark Ezra -> (12/28/2001 12:23:00 AM)

There are bugs in this game that have been worked on for years with out success. It's in the hard code. Many of us who have been around since the beginning have requested this change. have we been ignored? Far from it. Many attempts have been made, many ideas tried. But with little or no success. Its because of the limits to the engine itself. It is why I say any actual progaming be done on CL/CA and not on SPWAW. Don't get me wrong, I love SPWAW but it's time is past. The time of trying to make the game as perfect as possible has come and gone. In fact Matrix HAS made the game as perfect as possible with in the limits of the engine. It's time to let the Matrix team move on to the new generation of gaming instead of being stuck in past. Those gamers among us who want further code changes should actively contribute to the CL/CA boards. That is the way to REALLY improve SPWAW.



Larry Holt -> (12/28/2001 2:51:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
Just wanted to make it clear that this is still not sorted out. Units with more than one weapon of this type still act like every man is firing two or more weapons. There were some assurances given recently that this was not the case, but I just tested the soviet ski troops. They have an SMG in slot 4, and this weapon repeatedly gave up to 6 kills per shot. There are several more units still going around with this license to kill twice.
Finally, I suggest that carthage should be destroyed.

It has been stated that one "shot" does not equal one bullet. That is how snipers can kill more than one per shot. It seems to me that given the large amount of flying lead that a SMG burst can produce, that one SMG shot could easily kill more than one person. However, I have noted that Polish ATG teams have 2 men in them and 2 weapons (the ATR & a rifle). When they take one casualty, they still fire back with both weapons. I understood that as the nmber of men in a unit drops below the number of weapon slots, that these weapons would not fire. This seems not to be true. It does seem hard to see how one man could acquire a target, load the ATR, fire it then pick up a rifle and fire back too. All without any %to hit penalty. I could accept changing weapons if the number of shots available per weapon were reduced or the accuray was reduced. If this is a b**. I suppose I can live with this if this is beyond the changes that can be made this late in SPWaW's developmental cycle. (read don't fix in SPWaW but work on CL).



Redleg -> (12/28/2001 2:56:00 AM)

SPWAW is still alive for me. There is nothing out there that will get my $ for a long while that I know about. I have spent many $ on so-called "great games" that are now gathering dust. I always return to SPWAW. Problems, yes. OOB inconsistencies, yes. Overall, I think it is still a great game.



asgrrr -> (12/28/2001 3:04:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Ezra:
It's in the hard code. Many attempts have been made, many ideas tried. But with little or no success. Its because of the limits to the engine itself.
As Harris points out above, this problem can be easily fixed without touching the game engine.



lnp4668 -> (12/28/2001 3:16:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Harris:
A possible solution to this involves a bit of simple hacking of the OOB's.
Duplicate the offending weapon(s) and set the duplicate's class to '02- Secondary Infantry'. Then ensure that the units that have these extra weapons in slots 2-4 have the class 02 weapons in there. I think you'll find this fixes the problem.
The question is do spwaw have enough slots for the duplicate weapons?



asgrrr -> (12/28/2001 7:45:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668:
The question is do spwaw have enough slots for the duplicate weapons?
Much more than enough sir, far out. Just look for yourself. I must admit though that there is a grain of truth in what has been hinted at, that investing such a lot of mental energy in an entity that is nearing the end of its natural lifespan, to be inherited by its offspring, is not all that fruitful. However, repeatedly offering silly and even idiotic remark where none is needed, earns no respect from me.



lnp4668 -> (12/28/2001 9:56:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
Much more than enough sir, far out. Just look for yourself.
I did take a look, and it shows that 249 out of 250 slots are taken. So do spwaw support more than 250 weapons slot or is it limited to 250 like units?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (12/28/2001 10:20:00 PM)

Every once in a while I crave "absolute accuracy"
so I get in my old restored Sherman, go to the local armouries, and shoot a few carefully reloaded tank rounds rounds at passing vehicles. But this tends to piss off the authorities not to mentioned really getting the local traffic grid fouled up. Pity I cant gun down the escaping vehicle drivers, but I cant locate a source of vintage 50 cal ammo. Anyone know where I can get a good supply at an acceptable price per 1000 rounds. Fortunately I am able to get good results with the tank rounds. Admittedly they are not genuine AP rounds, but I havent seen any Tigers go by yet so I think I am safe. Ordinary steel seems to be adequate to take out SUV's so far.
The above was my way of responding to the accuracy debate. Seemed to me at least, this is as accurate as I need to be at least.



asgrrr -> (12/29/2001 12:00:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668:
I did take a look, and it shows that 249 out of 250 slots are taken. So do spwaw support more than 250 weapons slot or is it limited to 250 like units?
Taken????
Does that mean an 8mm dual Italian MG in the soviet OOB? That is not a very "taken" slot.



Stuart Millis -> (12/30/2001 1:07:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Harris:
A possible solution to this involves a bit of simple hacking of the OOB's.
Duplicate the offending weapon(s) and set the duplicate's class to '02- Secondary Infantry'. Then ensure that the units that have these extra weapons in slots 2-4 have the class 02 weapons in there. I think you'll find this fixes the problem.
This was done with some of the nations for v6.1 (particularly Finland) but, as it didn't seem to make any difference or was not noticed, I did not continue to spent time 'fixing' all of the nations. Be careful, however, that you compare units with the same experience and morale when testing the effectiveness of weapons. Some of those killer smg's that are used by some nations are not nearlt as effective when used by other nations. I strongly suspect (and have done for some time) that the Historical Ratings (relative between shooter and target) have a much greater effect on casualties than is generally credited.



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