Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (Full Version)

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__Creeper__ -> Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/1/2004 11:50:47 PM)

I was wondering how accurate steel panthers encyclopedia is when it comes to armor thickness, can i trust it as an accurate source? for example, it says the staghound has 38mm of side armor, 25 rear, 45front hull, 42 front turret, but the only web site I can find with staghound stats is this one: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/us...rmoredcars.html and it states diffrent values


any comments?



Gallo Rojo -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/2/2004 7:48:30 AM)

For sides and rear it is fairly accurate.
For front, especially regarding front turret armor, it isn't. The reason is that armor thickness in fron hull and turret may vary between diferent parts of the tank -- and inclination angle may varie as well.
For example: turret's mantelet is usually more thick than other parts of the turret's front.
Encyclopaedia's values represents actuall thickness in mm most of the times, but other times they represent some kind of "abstract" value to find a compromise among diferent thickness values.
hope that helps.



m10bob -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/2/2004 4:33:57 PM)

I believe that with newer versions of SP,the contributing designers were also trying to abstractly compensate for the type of armor,I.E.:cold rolled,case hardened,etc..These different types of steel/armor do have known properties,so the designers were not fudging on their figures..In past,their have been some errors,but the forum community is chock full of people willing to find and report discrepancies,(and some of them are actual armorers!!!)..[:)]



__Creeper__ -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/3/2004 1:42:51 AM)

ok, thanks alot, could you tell me how long steel panthers has been around?



FlashfyreSP -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/3/2004 3:08:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: __Creeper__

ok, thanks alot, could you tell me how long steel panthers has been around?


This game has been around almost a decade now. The original Steel Panthers came out in the mid-90's, before the Windows explosion. Compared to the original, this version is almost an entirely different game.



__Creeper__ -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/4/2004 5:35:23 PM)

ok, how long was steel panthers WaW around for? , if anyone could answer it for for certain, I would like to know what has more armor penatrating power in real life, the Garand 03-06 ball ammunition, or 7.92 armor piercing rounds, I assume the 7.92 would only be found in German MGs, such as the MG42?

what I want to figure out here is if the Garand rifle can pierce the 8mm side armor of a puma, because im told that it can do so at 50 yards, but I read that the puma armor can withstand 7.92 armor piercing rounds, wich sound like they would have better penatrating power than the Garand round



BulletMagnet -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/4/2004 7:40:17 PM)

Find the user named AmmoSgt and Pm her. I believe she might even own said firearm. Hope that helps.



AmmoSgt -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/5/2004 1:58:02 AM)

Yes, as a Matter of Fact, I do have a K98 ( 1942 byf code in a laminated stock) and a Garand ( or two) ...
Of all the rifle caliber rounds in WW2 , the US 30-06 was the most powerful at Most Ranges ... admitiedly not by much, 30-06,8mm (The 198 grain sS round, The typical round for WW2) 7.62 x 54r are all within about 5% of each other with 303 and 7.7 right behind .
AP ammo is about the same, relataively speaking, being a bit more powerful over all than the corresponding ball ammo ..US tended to pool the AP for the BAR ... I have a Belt of WW2 8mm Ammo from 1945 and it has no AP on it .. However they did make a AP round for the 8mm .
See http://www.cruffler.com/Features/JUL-01/trivia-July01.html and http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-July99.html.
Penetration of light Armor by rifle caliber ammo is possible but that doesn't mean you are going to actually do any damage or knock out the vehicle.. you still have to hit something real important inside ( and still have some energy left to do damage to cause any significant damage. This is the primary reason AT rifles . even ones that fired a rifle sized bullet, tended to have a larger case and stronger action than a standard rifle. Even early Armored vehicles with relatively thin armor were difficult to knock out with some very High powered AT rifles.
IMHO, in most cases of light Armor and scout cars being knocked out by rifle caliber fire , the truth is probably more along the lines of the crew losing thier nerve and bailing rather than the enemy fire actually doing enough damage to totally knock out the vehicle. The vehicle commander getting shot while exposed and a stray round coming thru a vision port with a tired and scared crew low on fuel and ammo kinda thing.. more likely than a burst of AP rifle ammo acttually penetatrating and doing fatal overwhelming damage. That being said , there are frequent reports in US Units Battle Diaries of the BAR taking out German Halftracks and scout vehicles. And probably more German Armor was "killed" by the crew abandoning the Tank or whatever due to running out of fuel or ammo than were actually knocked out by direct fire, especially late in the war on the Western Front.



__Creeper__ -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/5/2004 3:24:33 AM)

ok, thanks

i was thinking more on the lines of a puma getting ambushed at 50 yards side on by a rifle section rather than a single rilfeman, what do ya think? lots a penatrating shots?

someone on another forum told me that the Garand ball round can penatrate a half inch of armor at 50 yards, sourse from a book called "Death traps"

but a web site Iv read tells me the pumas 8mm side armor (less than half inch) can resist 7.92mm armor piercing rounds, Im confused, where do I put my trust? it has to do with making a mod for a game called "close combat"



__Creeper__ -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/11/2004 1:56:28 AM)

one final bump, hopin for another couple opinions if anyones got one on this, Garand pierce puma side armor at 50 yards while the 7.92 AP round cant? Garand pierce half inch armor at 50 yards, true or false?

anyone?



Voriax -> RE: Steel panthers armor thickness accuracy (7/11/2004 7:22:09 PM)

Ok, imho the claim that standard Garand ball ammo penetrates thicker armour than _armour-piercing_ Mauser round is downright silly.
Like AmmoSgt mentioned above, the 30-06 and 8mm Mauser round have very little difference in energy, so with similar bullet the performance doesn't differ that much. (sorry Ammo if I oversimplify [;)] )
This good site http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust5.htm#patrone says the standard 8mm sS penetrates 5mm of _steel_ at 100mm. That is steel, not armour. So 8mm or _Armour_ at close range just *might* be possible, but I wouldn't count on that.

Also this site states that the SmK(H) dedicated armour piercing round is rated to pierce 20mm steel at 500 meters! It should not be very hard for this round to go through 8mm armour at close range.

Btw, I've fired some 7,62x53R rounds that had a steel core against a rather thick slab of steel (like 5cm or so). Compared to the standard ball ammo the steel cored round made a twice as deep crater. Just another snippet of useless information [:'(]

Voriax



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