RE: Impressions of 8.2? (Full Version)

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jbott -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 6:24:14 PM)

I'd like to give you more feedback or impressions, but it would be helpful to know what exactly was changed in 8.2. Is there a 'what's New' file or 'readme'?



Resisti -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 7:27:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom

Well since the norway oob was purged, several scenerios can be deleted since they will now not work, dickermax, mause that roared[I think]. There may be more.


Hi Don!

Could you be a bit more specific on what you mean with "purged" ?
Norway OOB is containing even more new goodies, instead, that I know of.. (see also my post below)



Resisti -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 7:30:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbott

I'd like to give you more feedback or impressions, but it would be helpful to know what exactly was changed in 8.2. Is there a 'what's New' file or 'readme'?

The are two .pdf files in the main spwaw folder: one is named "SPWAW - OOB changes", and the other "SPWaW-Special Scenario Designer Units in Norway OOB 86".

Sometimes, looking in the most probable place where things would be located, is enough ;)



Toivo -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 7:43:13 PM)

Thank you for hint Major Destruction! Any others dates where certain german units appear?

Paddington - look around, it was one of either 1945 Aug or 1949 Dec special german OOBs under Italy/Netherlands/Belgium/Norway/Czechoslovakia. I'm sorry I don't remember since I was just fooling around with dates to see what special german OOBs appear.

ModSwapper is puzzle for sure. There would be new file type, *.spm - steel panthers mod. How to create own mod is indeed not explained yet.

Everything will come in time, full readme, Civil War/H2H mods and encyclopedias I'm sure.

Regards



BulletMagnet -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 9:19:47 PM)

Ok being playing a long camp as Germans in 39.observations..
1) Game feels like 7.1 with some differences
2)New icons and sounds are sweet
3)Infantry combat more deadly
4)infantry pop WAY too much smoke now, used to be only if you cranked up the AI now everytime they fall back nomatter what they pop smoke.
5)Machine guns work properly now

More to follow..



Don Doom -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 9:31:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Resisti

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom

Well since the norway oob was purged, several scenerios can be deleted since they will now not work, dickermax, mause that roared[I think]. There may be more.


Hi Don!

Could you be a bit more specific on what you mean with "purged" ?
Norway OOB is containing even more new goodies, instead, that I know of.. (see also my post below)


128mm spg
Mause
88mm flak18 HT
KT with por turent
PZK 1 command tank
sdkfz 10 HT
sdkfz 11/1 HT
Off the top of my head that where removed.



David Heath -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/4/2004 10:08:42 PM)

Hi Don

I must have missed that readme file. I need to get it from Steve and then I will post it. Sorry about that.

David



Major Destruction -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/5/2004 2:49:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Resisti

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom

Well since the norway oob was purged, several scenerios can be deleted since they will now not work, dickermax, mause that roared[I think]. There may be more.


Hi Don!

Could you be a bit more specific on what you mean with "purged" ?
Norway OOB is containing even more new goodies, instead, that I know of.. (see also my post below)


128mm spg
Mause
88mm flak18 HT
KT with por turent
PZK 1 command tank
sdkfz 10 HT
sdkfz 11/1 HT
Off the top of my head that where removed.


I don't see any of those units in Norway in v7.1 or v7.0
Most of the units you list are located in the Czech OOB, plus some new units



Wuotan -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/5/2004 12:45:32 PM)

Cant´say much about the gameplay yet, but it is VERY nice that you guys collected all
the pictures for the encyclopedia. And the additional informations there. GREAT!



Straticus -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/5/2004 3:38:38 PM)

Playing Solitaire WWII Campaign as Germany July '42. Noticed that Game generates cities with objectives not located near any roads. So I just buldozer my way through to the objective with vehicles - knocking down one structure after the next. Occasionally I diable a vehicle, but I don't care because I just fix it on the next turn. The result is a clear path to the objective for tanks and other heavy vehicles, etc.

Hardly a realistic strategy. Also noticed that if you set a path for vehicles in a city, they sometimes choose to go through buildings. This was fixed in a previous version but it's back again. Use to avoid buidings, known mines etc.



rich12545 -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 3:12:25 AM)

Here's what I don't understand. 8.2 was worked on for MONTHS. It was tested for at least a month. Yet we find scenario parts missing, other things that need fixing, and a whole slew of wrong stuff that ammosgt came up with at the depot after less than one day.



Straticus -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 3:34:50 AM)

I thought when you upgraded a unit to a new unit type, it would have the correct characteristics of the new unit type. But I have found that is not true - an infantry unit can not become a tank and so on.

Was it always this way?



Voriax -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 5:21:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legionaire

Was it always this way?


Yes.

Voriax



Toivo -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 7:22:55 AM)

Well v8.2 looks more playable than v8.0 for sure imho but ... crewmen assaulting with no weapons??

Also it does not look like planes pick targets with higher values like said in OOB-changes file. Maybe it wasn't ment like this - aircraft attack was set on Jagdtiger, it moved two hexes north before plane came in from east and plane attacked cheap PzAA unit instead two hexes east from original Jagdtiger unit.

Maybe I got wrong impression from current readme?



BryanMelvin -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 8:21:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toivo

Well v8.2 looks more playable than v8.0 for sure imho but ... crewmen assaulting with no weapons??

Also it does not look like planes pick targets with higher values like said in OOB-changes file. Maybe it wasn't ment like this - aircraft attack was set on Jagdtiger, it moved two hexes north before plane came in from east and plane attacked cheap PzAA unit instead two hexes east from original Jagdtiger unit.

Maybe I got wrong impression from current readme?


As for crewmen assaulting with no weapons - there is nothing the oobs could do to stop this from happening. No different than Snipers close assaulting a tank and destroying in 7.1. Crews should have Misc Small Arms weapons located in weapon slot two unless the random spwaw breakdown feature rates these as broken and thus it appears that a crew does not have weapons.

As for Aircraft choosing targets with higher values, this should be the case but radom modifiers seem to be at work: Smoke, entry/direction of attack, Experience, Perference settings, etc. effect what units are selected. Can you provide more details about this so we can better understand what is happening?



BryanMelvin -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 8:24:32 AM)

(Here is a comment that should be posted here but posted in forum)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet

The polish atr rifles are a bad joke rngfinder of 3.I think not.Pen higher than german tank guns...nope. Why is russian atr rgnfinder of 1.

The amount of smoke that infantry pop.Used to only occur when you cranked up the ai level, now happens all the time.

The lethality and accuracy of infantry fire. Way to accurate at too long of ranges.



Glad to hear your comments. As for the Polish ATR having a rangefinder of three, I'll try to answer as best I can but first let me clarify what Spwaw defines as Rangefinders and Fire Control from the SPWAW Manual as this will clear the air concerning what these are and how they were designed to be used in spwaw system:

The SPWAW Manual states:
--------------------------------------
Rangefinders

A high rangefinder value is vital for long-range shots. This value +1 is
multiplied times 6, 8, 10 and 12 for a series of “range bands” where a penalty of times .67, .5, .33 and .25 kick in. For instance a tank with a rangefinder value of 2 (effectively 3) has a normal hit chance out to 18 hexes (900yrds). At 900-1200 yards, it’s times .67, at 1200 – 1500 times .5, at 1500-1800 times .33 and beyond 1800 yards, .25. If the rangefinder value is greater than 12, it actually improves the accuracy of the first shot (or rather mitigates the penalty against initial shots).

Fire Control and Range Finder

The Fire Control and Range Finder ratings can provide a substantial bonus to a unit’s ability to hit by improving its accuracy. The Fire Control rating is multiplied by five and added directly to the accuracy rating for the unit in question. The range, speed of the firing unit, the speed of the target
and terrain it is in, the unit’s experience, suppression, and the leader’s command rating for that kind of unit then modify this number. This value with one added, times 6, times 8, times 10, and times 12 is used to define “range bands” that impose penalties of “x times 0.67”, “x times 0.5”, “x times 0.33” and “x times 0.25” to the hit chance. For example a unit with a Range Finder value of 2 has a normal hit chance out to (3*6) 18 hexes (900yrds), from 900-1200 its multiplied by .67, 1200 – 1500, by 5, 1500-1800, by .33 and beyond 1800, by .25. Fire control and range finder damage is automatically repaired between campaign battles.

---------------------------------------

These are modifiers used in the spwaw game and not to be used to reflect as actual Gyrostabilizers, optics, super sniper scopes and such as many tend to think.

Why the FC of three for the Polish ATR? Simple, it was one of the best ATR's used in its day. It used, in spwaw terms, an apcr round. To reflect its ability, it was given an RF of 3.
Next, compound this with the Early War Polish National Characteristics that Spwaw uses and it balances out. That is, if the "Characteristic’s" setting is turned "ON" in the Preference Menu.

Next, as for the amount of smoke infantry units pop, this really has nothing to do with the oobs. If this could have been changed in OOBs, we would have done so. I went on a check and it appears that the same amount of smoke is used in 7.1 when using Fred's waw editor to check between 8.2. This is when the Realism Preference setting "Reduce Ammo On" is used. If this setting is not used, a unit receives more smoke in both versions.

Manual States:

------------------
Limited Ammo/Reduced Ammo Limited Ammo On - The unit receives the ammunition listed in the purchase screen and the ammunition is reduced when the unit fires.
Reduced Ammo On - The unit receives 50% to 99% of the ammunition listed in the purchase and the ammunition is reduced when the unit fires.
Limited Ammo Off - The unit receives the ammunition listed in the purchase screen and the ammunition is NOT reduced when the unit fires.
-------------------

What setting do you use? This maybe causing the effect you are seeing.

Finally, to your last observation: The lethality and accuracy of infantry fire. Can you be specific on what nation's Infantry you are seeing this occur? Is it possible that the units being fired at have been moving? Or they non-moving? This could be due infantry movement. Can you provide more details here? So this can be pin pointed better.

Thanks for your response.



slyone -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 3:57:27 PM)

I don't understand something. Wasn't the "True Update" meant to provide with automatic patch installation? I run it and it says that my version (8.0) is the latest one. Is this going to be working?



Losqualo -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 4:04:45 PM)

Hi slyone,

8.2 is only available as full download.



slyone -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 4:12:14 PM)

Pitty!



Thrashman -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 10:41:17 PM)

Started the second attempt at a long campaign against the IA November '42 ( my first attempt Dec '42 resulted in a map that had no place for me to place my units so I had to abandon it). Selected my core force (4280 points per side) and loooked at the map and it was a full large map(desert, two main roads), clicked continue and then selected my support and clicked continue.

At this point I was like what????? Completely new map about half the size of the small screen at bottom right, no roads just desert. I said well ok and placed all my units and began the battle. I looked around the map and I noticed there were no VH at all, they had all disapeared. I relized that this may be one of those that when you cross one it reappears so I continued the battle. Then I relized that the visablity had droped from what was at the initial core selection screen of a visibility of about 15 down to a visability of like 4 hexes. I said well I will go forth anyway.

Two turns later the first sighting of the enemy, they were probing along about half of the front in the worst terrain on the map for an attack. I had set up a anti-tank and tank front on what would appear the best routs to attack on this map and set up mainly infantry with some supporting tanks in the sector that would be the most difficult to attack in and the easiest to defend. They hit me with everything all at once in the place I least expected. It was timed very well with the arty falling just before initial contact with my front, leaving many of my front line units completely defenseless and suppressed. They broke through after several turns and I was just in time with some reinforcments that I had standing at the ready several hexes back from the front.

I then swung wide with all tanks with a small contingent of mounted infantry through the area that I had thought the attack would come and met no resistence at all and was able to flank the enemy and pretty much destroy them all.

It appears that the AI had a good idea but failed to cover his flank. And I don't understand why the maps are changing and why the VH are disapearing. Any Ideas?



Voriax -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/6/2004 10:46:19 PM)

Thrashman, if you did install on top of the old version delete all and reinstall. Or install into a new directory.
Also try deleting the steel.prf file from saves folder.

Voriax



o4r -> Data error (7/7/2004 1:43:12 PM)

PV IV F2 and G ,their available years is wrong, it says from June 1942 to 1942 and the later end date is also 1942, so whilst playing Russia vs German, my friend complain he does not have any PV IV long barrel to buy.



Losqualo -> RE: Data error (7/7/2004 2:37:22 PM)

According to the "Encyclopedia of German tanks in WW2" it should be the following:

Pz IV F2 produced from March to July 1942
Pz IV G produced from May 1942 to June 1943.

Note that those are the production dates, availability is normaly 1 or 2 months after production started.



Thrashman -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/7/2004 3:19:00 PM)

Thanks Voriax, deleting the steel.prf file made the VH come back and seamed to make the game keep the map originaly selected on the next battle.



CanadianPowerslave -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/7/2004 7:30:25 PM)

With the talk of special German units being in other OOB's. If I wanted to creat a new unit in another OOB, do I need to do anything to see it in the German buy screen or do I need to change the country to whatever OOB I put it in? Ive made sure that all the dates are correct.

Thanks



Voriax -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/7/2004 7:54:28 PM)

You do not see it in the German purchase screen unless the unit is in _German_ oob. To buy them you need to change the 'nation' during the purchase phase to whatever nation's oob you are using for these extra units.
So if you add German units to, say, Czech oob you keep their nationality Czechoslovakian. Then start the purchase phase as German but change nation to Czech during actual purchases. If your new units have a proper formation they will appear in the purchase list. Assuming avail dates match, of course.

Voriax



BruceAZ -> RE: SCENARIOS MISSING FILES (7/8/2004 3:03:37 AM)

Resiti:

None of the changes I sent to you on my campaigns got corrected either. What happened?

Recon
Semper Fi



Toivo -> RE: SCENARIOS MISSING FILES (7/8/2004 9:26:32 AM)

BryanMelvin:
I assumed units with no weapons (even without small arms) just can't assault. Haven't played SPWAW for ages though, just H2H.

As for planes case might be that target moved and another unit took it's place and got targeted instead thus. Quite possible as I doubt plane is smart enough to hunt few hundred meters off flying direction...



Resisti -> RE: SCENARIOS MISSING FILES (7/8/2004 1:39:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BruceAZ

Resiti:

None of the changes I sent to you on my campaigns got corrected either. What happened?

Recon
Semper Fi


Darn me if I know!

It could be me that missed to send them to Matrix, or Matrix who missed to include them.

I've sent back to David your files few days ago, together with those for "Raiders of the Sahara" campaign and the missing scenarios files somewbody reported about.

Hope he'll upload the whole stuff soon!



Hunpecked -> RE: Impressions of 8.2? (7/9/2004 12:44:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legionaire

I thought when you upgraded a unit to a new unit type, it would have the correct characteristics of the new unit type. But I have found that is not true - an infantry unit can not become a tank and so on.



In a case like that I go into WAWEd (IIRC in the Chlanda folder) and exchange the armor and infantry ratings.



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