Tactics for Special Forces and Partisans? (Full Version)

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Kuroshio Apocal -> Tactics for Special Forces and Partisans? (12/31/2001 2:44:00 PM)

I've been having this particularly tough time rediscovering how to employ infiltration units. 7 times out of 10, they seem to do nothing more than pad my opponent's body count, or shatter like glass and flee the battlefield. For now, I am using the Rangers in my core force as line infantry, but that mission isn't too well suited to them... too few men and short-ranged weapons means they can't hold the line for anything. I am seriously considering trading them out for a platoon of Airborne infantry to add to my existing rifle company. Any tactics, variables, techniques, etc. I could use to make my Special Forces more valuable?



achappelle -> (12/31/2001 4:00:00 PM)

I like using them in a couple of ways:
1. Send them deep behind the lines, to take out artillery crews, the HQ, and stragglers
2. threaten the rear Victory hexes, and draw as many of the enemy off the main attack, this especially works if you are in an assault and tied up clear a path through a minefield.
3. cause mayhem and destruction in any creative way you can think of. remember that's part of the psychology of special warfare. psych out your enemy.



jonypure -> (12/31/2001 4:12:00 PM)

Hit and Run!



skukko -> (12/31/2001 4:20:00 PM)

US Rangers are ubermensch. They suck. Don't use them; smell of their deadorant and Soave (hairgrease) reveals their paths to my Rottweilers (big black dogs). German commander Mosh



Brennus -> (12/31/2001 6:21:00 PM)

They can be used in the first line of the ennemy defenses, and help for the breakthrough. But they are very vulnerable.
I tried only one time to use partisans when I was in defense, for disorganizing the rear of my opponent, and delay his attack. In Normandy, you can take french resistants and launch them in the rears of the Germans, (by using allied troops if it's possible). Especially around Brest, in Bretagne. In my opinion using this units is very difficult. You need to have a very good timing. And I think you can't use them without coordination with the main force. Or the defender can rapidly eliminate those who are isolated. Franck.



Larry Holt -> (12/31/2001 10:07:00 PM)

There is a lot of uncertainty in any infiltration attempt based on you not knowing when each unit will arrive. If your battle plan can achieve success with this uncertainty, you probably don't need them. Pushing ACs into your opponent's rear area through smoke or dense terrain is a much more reliable means of attacking his rear area. I leave infiltration to scenarios where it may make sense for historical reasons.



brianleeprice -> (12/31/2001 10:35:00 PM)

Due to the uncertain arrival I almost never use them except vs human opponents and then only very rarely and in small doses. An alternative that works rather well is to use airborne or glider infantry. A mix of recon and airborne infantry can wreak havoc in the rear areas with a large enough map - especially good for locating onboard artillery and for ambushing reinforcements. For large battles where reinforcements are expected, a few gliders full of engineers can really cause problems - most glider troops seem to have less surpression on arrival and thus can organize and get moving faster. Engineers laying mines in the enemy rear areas can seriously hamper his mobility. On rare occasion I've used all three - airborne recon, glider engineers, and inflitrating special forces. It has to be a fairly large battle on a decent size map for it to make any sense. I like to delay the airdrop and glider assaults a few turns - this gives the opportunity to draw the opponent off balance, use airstrikes to clear the approach paths, and artillery to supress any AAA prior to the drops. I do the drops far to the enemy rear, the gliders a bit closer, and set the infiltration points to areas I expect my opponent to withdraw forces from to counter the drops. It also helps to have a high mobility main force when using such tactics. This allows you to feint early at one point and then after the infiltration troops arrive, rapidly disengage and maneuver to launch the main assault. All in all it is a complex battle plan and only works in certain situations; if you use these types of tactics too often they will be less effective as your opponent will take countermeasures. The *threat* of rear area actions is the important thing - it complicates your opponent's battle plans if they have to consider the possibility and take steps to protect against it. One great thing about SP:WAW is that you can 'fake' an expensive rear area operation - troop gliders and cargo planes are fairly cheap - rather than load them with expensive troops - send the gliders in empty and put a couple two man scout teams in each cargo plane - it appears that you've invested heavily in the assault, but the total cost can be as low as a section of medium tanks. Hmmm that reminds me, I've been playing the AI too much lately, I need to find some human opponents Brian



timc -> (12/31/2001 11:05:00 PM)

Commando/Ranger/Partisan units are extremely useful for reconaissance. I use them for spotting enemy reserves and artillery and then calling in artillery or airstrikes if necessary. I make sure their range is set to 1 so they don't start any fights unless it's unavoidable. I don't move them very much and then only one hex at a time in cover. Just like real life, small, lightly armed units don't do well against large, heavily armed units.



Kuroshio Apocal -> (1/1/2002 2:40:00 AM)

Thanks for all the advice. Perhaps the fact that the shock value has worn off is the cause of my problems...
quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
[QB]Pushing ACs into your opponent's rear area through smoke or dense terrain is a much more reliable means of attacking his rear area.[QB]
AC's? Armored cars, aircraft, or something else? I'm pretty much a wargaming newbie. Deep behind enemy lines, follow-up main force units, timing is crucial, suprise, shock, and speed. I think I got it again. One more question, when you buy a company of Rangers, are the support units considered Ranger too? I noticed they are listed as conventional units and I was wondering if that had any affect on their performance.



Capt. Pixel -> (1/1/2002 2:58:00 AM)

The company support units won't be available for infiltration, if I recall correctly.
I too, like to set my infiltrators range to 0 and let them feed me information from behind my enemies lines. This is quite useful if you have a large amount of artillery or air power.
In a current game, my opponent dropped Rangers behind my lines and capped an FO and mauled my A0 before a desperate rescue attempt by a platoon of Arm Engineers managed to get them extracted from the danger. At great additional cost, I might add. Don't tell ME that Rangers aren't useful!!



panda124c -> (1/2/2002 12:56:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Kuroshio Apocal:
Thanks for all the advice. Perhaps the fact that the shock value has worn off is the cause of my problems... AC's? Armored cars, aircraft, or something else? I'm pretty much a wargaming newbie. Deep behind enemy lines, follow-up main force units, timing is crucial, suprise, shock, and speed. I think I got it again. One more question, when you buy a company of Rangers, are the support units considered Ranger too? I noticed they are listed as conventional units and I was wondering if that had any affect on their performance.

AC - Armoured Car
Against a human opponent if they know you can or have infiltrated behind their lines they will have to redeploy troops to counter the threat. By keeping the units hidden and attacking only when you have a overwelming advatage you can let your opponet know they are there. Then set up ambushes to harrass his troops, the more toops he has to send to take out your Rangers the less he has to oppose your main attack. Against the AI you can sneak up on the rear victory squares for recon and if no one is there take the victory squares then hide in ambush to see if the AI reacts.



Redleg -> (1/2/2002 2:52:00 AM)

I haven't used infiltrators vs AI but against a human player on a large enough map, it is quite entertaining. My favorite is Soviet partisans infiltrating along roads to interefere with movements and reinforcements. One of the most realistic applications I know of is a combined force of Soviet partisans, paratroops, and cavalry in Winter 41-42. Really happened - didn't work, though. ;-) Still, it is fun to try. A force of partisans followed by a paratroop landing followed by a cavalry penetration is fun to try. As was said before, infiltrate into woods, hidden areas until enough partisans are there to be able to defend themselves.



adantas -> (1/2/2002 9:07:00 PM)

Hi folks! well, I like to use infiltrators alot when playing against Human opponents with variable results.
for me, the best of them are the USMC Listening post..I had few of then that infiltrated just at the side of onboard enemy arty,it was luck for sure!! , and they directed my fire against the enemy with great success!!.
My oppinion here is if you will use small units like this, use them to spot rear area positions and to direct your arty fire..don't waste them attacking enemy positions.
--------------
Senta à Pua!!!



Larry Holt -> (1/2/2002 11:58:00 PM)

It has been mentioned that your forces in your opponent's rear area causes him uncertainity and to fight in more than one direction at a time by forcing him (usually) to allocate combat power to rear area protection. This is realistic. Just the threat of attacking in the rear is enough to send some people into a frenzy and disrupt their plans. If you try to push an AC through and you fail, how does he know if perhaps another did get through in some hidden route? I really like Brian's technique of faking a rear area insertion with some light diversionary troops. I think that playing smart like this and not relying upon hulking Tigers or JSIIIs is more of a challenge and more exciting. In some battles, there may be nothing of value in your opponent's rear area or he may be willing to let you run loose planning that he will defeat your main force then deal with the annoyance in his rear area. Actually, I prefer this focus on the main objective. I prefer not to be nickled and dimed to death by pealing off forces to deal with each distraction. A few cheap ATGs and MGs around my on-board arty makes them hard to attack with anything that can get back there.



Kuroshio Apocal -> (1/3/2002 5:13:00 AM)

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm currently in my opponents artillery battery with two platoons of Rangers, hurting people and breaking stuff .



AbsntMndedProf -> (1/3/2002 5:44:00 AM)

I've been experimenting with Soviet Partisans/Sappers in the 'Heroes of the Motherland' campaign. In my last battle, I had six sapper units infiltrate next to two Pz IIIgs. They were able to destroy both AFVs and withdraw to stone buildings in the following turn. After that, they stayed in the buildings, firing at passing German units that were on their way back to the Fatherland. Each unit lost at least two of their number before the battle was over, but managed to hold their ground fairly well. I had ten sapper units in all, and four wound up with the dreaded turn 99 arival time. I guess they were assigned to get the vodka and caviar to celebrate victory with after the battle was over. :-) Eric Maietta



RichardTheFirst -> (1/4/2002 1:07:00 PM)

I've tried infiltration just a few times and all the times I did, it payed. I don't employ many however as about 1/4 to 1/3 will not reach the destination. I like to infiltrate just 1 or 2, max 3 units to probable places of enemy artillery, especially agains opponents who like "fixed" artillery, most of the times they will be in rough, rocks, boulders or trees. If I'm lucky I'll materialize right in the middle and maybe destroy a dump or a few pieces. That more than pays for the cost of the units and the advantages of limiting the enemy artillery could be very important. If I'm unlucky anyway I'll be in covered ground and maybe undetected so I plan from there. Also the element of surprise could be a reasonable blow. Imagine the enemy have everything organized for a big offensive and counting with the artillery.... In short, deppends on your opponent style, but doing that once in two or three battles can make your regular opponent more cautious.



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