Vehicle getting stuck (Full Version)

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Matt -> Vehicle getting stuck (1/1/2002 1:50:00 AM)

Does anyone else feel that vehicles get stuck too often? I can understand breakdowns and malfunctions, but I feel that vehicles get stuck far too often, especially in inappropriate terrain (ie. clear, dry spaces or fields). If I had a nickel for every time I had a T-34 in about the last 20 battles played with them (known for their wide tracks) get stuck in a field or otherwise open, dry space I would at least be able to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I even had one get stuck on a road once. I have had quite a few Shermans get stuck also. I can understand getting stuck in a swamp hex once in a while, though maybe that happens too much also, and I don't like to sacrifice the realism of malfunctions, but this drives me nuts Having bruised my ribs enough in the hatch of a tank for real and done enough therein to justify my frustration with the game. I've never gotten a tank stuck, let alone one as light and mobile as a T34 in the game. My driver once put one in a stock dam (and BTW, tanks don't float). I don't like to complain about a free game, but I interested in other points of view. Or even methods of mitigating this occurance. Help! Regards, Matt



MacCready -> (1/1/2002 2:03:00 AM)

Matt: Sometimes I notice that a single vehicle might not move during one turn,but never a bunch of stuff stuck! I think you might have command/control set to on in the pref's,If you don't set an objective for the formation then your units will appear to be stuck.



tracer -> (1/1/2002 2:10:00 AM)

Matt, I've had games like that, but its just a string of bad luck. Remember that 'clear' hexes are called 'mixed' for a reason: there can still be rock outcroppings, mud holes, etc. The game checks for a vehicle getting stuck every time it moves, its just that the odds are much lower in 'mixed' hexes. In all my current PBEM games I've had no vehicles get stuck or break down...damn, I shouldn't have said that, Mr Murphy is always listening



Don Doom -> (1/1/2002 2:11:00 AM)

yep I am listening



john g -> (1/1/2002 3:22:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Matt:
Does anyone else feel that vehicles get stuck too often? I can understand breakdowns and malfunctions, but I feel that vehicles get stuck far too often, especially in inappropriate terrain (ie. clear, dry spaces or fields
If what you are seeing is immobilization, it has been explained in the past that vehicles will throw tracks if running fast even down a road. When I read Gen R's experiances in North Africa, on episode he mentions is where tanks were going down a road and the road gave way, spilling the tanks into the ditch next to the road. From my experiances years ago when I drove a lumber delivery truck, we had trucks get stuck hundreds of times over the years, with events as nasty as having the rear wheels crack thru a septic tank cover, so the rear wheels on one side end up in a septic tank full of... Or another case where the lot was where someone had been dumping liquid waste oil and after a couple of runs over the ground it became like a trampoline when walked on and like a bog when driven on. You never know what a heavy vehicle will do when run over anything but concrete, even asphalt roads will rip to pieces when a heavy tracked vehicle runs over it.
thanks, John.



tracer -> (1/1/2002 5:48:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Don Doom:
yep I am listening
And yep, it just bit me on the ass (not stuck, but a weapon breakdown).



JYGamer -> (1/1/2002 11:25:00 AM)

I have the occassional vehicle get stuck and immobilized. Sometimes they become mobile again. One of the features that I like. On the other hand, I have never had a weapon that suffered a breakdown get fixed. Even if the unit was no where near combat or the enemy. So I finally turned off the weapons breakdown on the preferences. If you feel that too many vehicles breakdown, then turn off vehicles breakdown in the preferences.



BvB -> (1/1/2002 9:42:00 PM)

Good points. It would be nice if in a future patch that weapons previously malfunctioned or damaged would have some chance to repair the same as immobilization.
I also did time in armor units and can relate experiences of thrown tracks, breaking through ice in a frozen rice paddy, stuck on sharp road edges, etc. In game terms the chances seem to increase when going full speed. If there seem to be too many breakdowns, then maybe the percentage chance could be toned down?
My big beef is why does the AI decide to move over a wall or building and get needlessly stuck when it could've easily gone around. The only recourse is to move one hex at a time... BvB



Jacc -> (1/2/2002 12:56:00 AM)

MGs and other small firearms should get fixed a lot more often than large guns and cannons. Often a MG crew can keep their guns working with even a small amount of butter and captured ammo. Rifles are block-made and simple, there is always more than one panzerfaust (but not bazooka or panzerschreck) and so on.
Larger weapons, say 88mm AT gun or 75L70 gun, had to be repaired in other than battlefield conditions. However, sometimes the fault is as simple asa stuck lock, grain of sand or something. These weaponry malfunctions should be more closely studied and presented in the game.



panda124c -> (1/2/2002 1:11:00 AM)

In Robert Crisp book "The Gods Were Neutral" about the Greek Campain (British Tanks) the A9 was well know for throwing a track just turning around. He mentions how he commanded his troop to back out of position (not under fire) ranther than try to turn around because of the possibility of throwing a track.
At least in SPWaW the immoblized vehical will get repaired, possible during the game. The weapon repair has not worked since 4. something. The effort to fix it is not worth the effort with CL in the wings.



HARPOON -> (1/2/2002 2:06:00 AM)

This subject has been beaten to death in the past. I'll try to relate to you what was said in the past. Yes, it's annoying as Hell, think of the German commanders during Operation Zitadelle, with the Panther tank problems. There's a solution on the preference page, click off the vehicle breakdown.
As for a T-34 breaking down/getting stuck, IIRC many times during the war, tanks were still being produced in beseiged and embattled cities(Stalingrad and Leningrad). What kind of quality control could there have been? "Does it move? Does the gun fire? Good, we'll take it."
Also, maintenance during sustained operations is generally suspect. Also, with a peasant army such as the the Red Army. How much of a grasp did they have of mechanization? What kind of driver training program did the units of the Red Army have? "You'll learn when your driving to the battle" Also, remember you spoiled modern American Tankers, no automatic transmissions. Try to catch a gear in a mud hole.
Consider, Mother Russia's infra-structure and climate. I could go on with that for a while.
Then there's General Murphy or just dumb stupid luck. Or the fickle finger of fate. I used to be a First Sergeant of a mechanized engineer company and many times I had to be sitting down to hear what happened to our battalion vehicles.
So, lose an occasional vehicle, no big deal. Remember the canned answers(which I hate just as much as anyone else),"It's a leadership problem. Deal with it. Improvise, adapt and overcome. Mission, mission, mission"



Redleg -> (1/2/2002 2:46:00 AM)

When I was in battalion operations, I hated march orders - the things that happened to vehicles was almost unbelievable. Defies description. When the Brigade was moving, there was an incredible number of vehicles strung out along the road for one reason or another. Very limited number of recovery vehicles and mechanics. I remember well the 2 and sometimes 3 gun batteries. A four gun TOE battery was almost never there. Most times, we had 2 or 3 guns and about 60% of TOE strength. Worked out pretty well unless the guns were back on line. ;-)



Matt -> (1/2/2002 5:51:00 AM)

I'd like to refine my observations from earlier. Many of you pointed out some good facts an views on the breakdown aspect. From what I remember, an earlier version, perhaps v5, had a very high number ob breakdowns and I remember quite a number of threads that mentioned that. I don't recall exactly when it was changed, but I know it was reduced a little subsequent to this feature being added. Frankly, I feel that breakdowns in particular are very balanced and due a pretty fair job of replicating real life, even if there will always be room around the fringes for tweeking it here and there for different pieces of equipment. I have only once seen a vehicle get fixed during a battle (this was how I learned what the toolbox was for, after I had seen a few of those get shot of vehicles). Arguably, some small arms and smaller pieces of equipment could get fixed faster. Overall though, my hat's off to the programmers. I can also understand vehicles getting stuck in swamps, mud or snow, fording in water muddy or snowy roads, occationally in thick vegitation or rough hexes, or crossing small streams. What did seem strange was that many vehicles various types (though most notably the aforementioned wide tracked T34) were getting stuck in flat, dry open spaces and roads. Of course, there will always be a few individuals who are shall we say, not the sharpest pencils in the desk, who will continually find a way to get stuck or get into somewhere a vehicle ought not to go withing that 50m hex, but I figure those are the guys that get stuck in the streams, swamps, and mud. I would submit that getting stuck on the dry open spaces is not an occurance that is frequent enough to warrent simulating. Has anyone else seen their vehicles getting stuck in places you wouldn't expect? Regards, Matt



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