Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (Full Version)

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Anthony_MatrixForum -> Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/7/2004 7:42:16 AM)

I believe that the scoring system in MC's is still broken - even in 8.2 (This has been a problem since day one of the MC-NA)

Now I hate to grumble, but we have paid for the MegaCampaigns!

If you save the game part way through a scenario - some parts of your( and the AI)
score is not being saved. This is esp bad when there are victory exit hexes and/or per turn
victory hexes.

Examples ( All from MC-WT node 19, battle 13C )

"Rescue the pilot"

  • Game 1A - Exited Core , Jap Held VH (400pts), Pilots Killed(Turn 6). save turn 8, before force exited. Score = 2267 H vs 1302 (AI) Draw !
  • Game 1B - Exited Core , Jap Held VH (400pts), Pilots Killed(Turn 6). save turn 8,15, after force exited. Score = 2 H vs 1302 (AI) D Loss!!!
  • Game 2A - Exited Core , USM VH(400), Pilots Exit(750), Save turn 8, before force exited, Score = 3918 H vs 1262 (AI) Minor Vic !
  • Game 2B - Exited Core , USM VH(400), Pilots Exit(750), Save turn 8,15, after force exited, Score = 627 H vs 1246 (AI) Draw !


Details......

In game 1A&B, the aux force stayed right out of the action. In game 2A&B, the aux force claimed the VH's. Their cost ~ 900 points.

Game1A
AI Score 1300 ~ 900 (aux force still on map) + 400 (VH) +kills (small) [AI lost points for killing pilots)
Human Score 2267 ~ 2200 ( exited core force) + kills

Game1B
AI Score 1300 ~ 900 (aux force still on map) + 400 (VH) +kills (small) [AI lost points for killing pilots]
Human Score = 2 (kills) [ Lost score for exiting force = 2260 points!!!]

The only real difference here was a save at turn 15 - costing 2260 points


Game2A
AI Score 1300 ~ 900 (aux force still on map) + kills ?????
Human Score 3918 ~ 2260 (exit cure force) +750(Exit Pilots) 400(VH) + + kills

Game 2B
AI Score 1300 ~ 900 (aux force still on map) + kills ?????
Human Score 627~ 400(VH) + + kills [ Lost 3000 points = 2260 (exit cure force) +750(Exit Pilots) ]

Again - the only real difference here was a save at turn 15 - costing 3000 points

So in summary

Victory exit hexes are not saved
Value of units killed is not properly saved (is there a per man cost and a seperate per unit cost?- one part may work)
I strongly suspect that victory points per turn type Vic Hex are not working either ( they didn't in ver 7.x)

Anyone from Matrix care to comment ????

Thanks kindly for your attention

Anthony



DeSade -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/7/2004 8:19:26 PM)

hate to hear this :-( I hoped Matrix fixed it after 2+ years....

This bug is very annoying, especially in conjunction with another bug, traced by me in last two weeks. It manifested itself first in MCLV "Nasty Surprise" scenario - after hitting enemy vehicle, game crash to desktop around turn 10.
After few replays, I was sure about few things:

First, it's not caused by damaged save, I went few scenarios back (few times), played them succesfully, and came to the same effect in Nasty Surpise.
Second, it’s not machine related – crashed on three quite different computers with Win XP, Win98 and Win2000.
Third, it’s not always in the same moment – just in general timeframe of turn 10.
Fourth, it’s easy to avoid, that’s why most people didn’t notice it – when you save in the middle of the scenario, you will not see it. And here comes your bug :-(

This bug is well documented by other users in thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=220212

Most probably it’s caused by overflow in some data stored internally by game in memory – after save and load this data is probably compressed/better arranged. Nasty Surpise is big scenario, with many units and plenty of shots (trying to stop lot’s of KV’s with even more PzIII’s and misc. artillery). Crash happened always after canon or arty hit (probably succesful) enemy vehicle, never after small arms fire or against infantry. Crash is not related to MC – I have the same effect replaying this scenario as normal scenario. Also I found another big panzer scenario with the same effect.

For curious souls, here are the stats:

1. NO save – crash arond turn 10
2. save and load at turn 4 – crash around turn 13
3. save and load at turn 7 – crash around turn 15
4. save and load at turn 10 – played succesfully till end (turn 19).

As you can see, it’s very hard to trace, usual procedure for tech support is “save your game just before crash and send it to us” – and they can’t find anything wrong with it then.

So please Matrix answer – forget my problem, just solve broken score saving, so I can buy General Edition with peace of mind ;-)



rich12545 -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/8/2004 6:52:16 PM)

Don't hold your breath. David has told me he will not come out with the mclv final update so I see no reason why he would fix anything else.



DeSade -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/8/2004 7:43:48 PM)

rich12545 -> I have quite a lot of full-time top notch programmers bored to death with SQL in my company - just give me part of source code responsible for saving MC and I will fix it myself [8D]
Anthony -> after carefully reading your example I'm not sure - is it possible that only second save in given scenario breaks scoring? (in your example save at turn 15?)
What about save at turn 8? Option to save only once in scenario is much better then no save at all, especially considering my previous post.

BTW, I'm latecomer to SPWaW, but I think I'm in love with it [;)]



rich12545 -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/8/2004 9:11:17 PM)

LOL. You'll need to talk to David for part of the source code.



simulacrum -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/20/2004 2:18:47 AM)

The programming that gave us the clunky save system that reduces the utility of an otherwise great concept also gave us the lost leaders and lost turn-based scores bugs. The lost leaders issue compromises the otherwise engaging role playing effect. The lost scores problem compromises the fine work that went into the decision tree system. Spent many hours on work-arounds, but finally gave them up as unacceptable. Haven't played an MC since. Many sincere thanks, and over $100 for Mega Campaigns, to Matrix for the gratis effort on SPWAW. Am more than impressed by the outstanding effort done by the MC development teams. However, as a paying customer, am legitimately unhappy with the programming that went into the MCs. Will not commit to MCSE for this reason. If Matrix intends to produce more MCs for commercial release, these programming issues must be addressed.



#Vassago -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/20/2004 3:38:15 AM)

Now this is a major turn down...the megacampaign savegame bug is still present in the General's Edition of Steel Panthers???!!!

I just shelled out a 100$ for this game...I sure hope Matrix Games will have the decency to adress this issue among others like the missingtrueupdate and missing scenarios...

I am not impressed so far by support and debugging/Quality assurance I must say.

Marc-Andre



rich12545 -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/20/2004 10:30:27 PM)

And it is for that reason that I won't spend any more money with Matrix except for spwaw, and that's well over $100 so far, more than any other game (even with expansions) that I've ever owned. In my discussion with David a few months ago he told me the final update to mclv wouldn't be done and basically ts. So I really don't believe these bugs will ever be addressed either. The word from Matrix is the programming was done by Michael Woods and he is no longer available. Yeah, like nobody else knows anything about programming. Oh, well.



#Vassago -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/20/2004 11:00:50 PM)

Huh!? They can't fix bugs because a programmer is not available!? You have to be kidding!

If this is what you were really told, they I guess 99% of all companies should not be able to do anything with the kind of turnover rate there has been in the past and currently is in the IT sector!!!!

This game's origin is from DOS...this means it is written in C++...how can someone not be able to find a wiz in C++ to fix the bugs???? HOW??? The're hundreds of that kind on the planet, some of them would even probably do it for free just be able to put that on their CV.

Anyhow...bad business model, that`s what it is. This is almost just as bas as Ubisoft canning futur developement for Lock-On...

quote:

RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is sti... (in reply to #Vassago)




And it is for that reason that I won't spend any more money with Matrix except for spwaw, and that's well over $100 so far, more than any other game (even with expansions) that I've ever owned. In my discussion with David a few months ago he told me the final update to mclv wouldn't be done and basically ts. So I really don't believe these bugs will ever be addressed either. The word from Matrix is the programming was done by Michael Woods and he is no longer available. Yeah, like nobody else knows anything about programming. Oh, well.



rich12545 -> RE: Scoring in MegaCampaigns is still broken (7/20/2004 11:33:11 PM)

Sorry to say that's exactly what we've been told.[&:]



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