Japanese Production Requirements (Full Version)

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Brun -> Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 2:01:35 AM)

Hello all, newbie here. I have followed this forum for the past year and now have the game. My question is - Do the Japanese need to move oil to mainland China to feed the industry there. There seems to be plent of resources but lack oil and with no rail link to Osaka the HI shouldn't produce without imports.

Brun



Xargun -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 7:57:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brun

Hello all, newbie here. I have followed this forum for the past year and now have the game. My question is - Do the Japanese need to move oil to mainland China to feed the industry there. There seems to be plent of resources but lack oil and with no rail link to Osaka the HI shouldn't produce without imports.

Brun


Yes. Right now my industry (starting and captured) consume 780 more unit of oil per day that is produced in the area. So eventually I'll have to start shipping oil to China if I want all that industry to keep producing. Now China starts with a surplus just like the Home Islands, just don't make the mistake of seeing 10,000 oil laying around in a port and ship it home to Japan - or else you are hurting yourself. Resources you can ship some home - right now I can ship home 16,000 resources a month out of china safely.

Xargun



Faker than Hollywood -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 9:01:10 AM)

quote:

Xargun


Hi ! IJN could sortie the whole fleet about two times in WW II PTO-- have you considered invading Pearl at the on-set, siezing the oil stocks or at least blowing them up so that USN Silent Service subs need service on the CONUS west coast and give Marus more sub-free transit time ? Is it possible for the IJN to pull-off a Rommel DAK-type supply siezure and take Pearl's oil ?



von Murrin -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 9:08:54 AM)

No. You'll end up with a port you can't supply or hold and a whole lot less of the SRA if you decide Pearl must go. All it takes is a look at what you have to commit and where you really need it.



Alikchi2 -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 9:29:51 AM)

Remember, there IS at least a full US Div at Pearl.



Xargun -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 10:21:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faker than Hollywood

quote:

Xargun


Hi ! IJN could sortie the whole fleet about two times in WW II PTO-- have you considered invading Pearl at the on-set, siezing the oil stocks or at least blowing them up so that USN Silent Service subs need service on the CONUS west coast and give Marus more sub-free transit time ? Is it possible for the IJN to pull-off a Rommel DAK-type supply siezure and take Pearl's oil ?


I do not believe there is ANY oil at PH - just fuel. And after 2 weeks of heavy moving, I am not even close to being low on fuel. Also, I believe PH has 2 Divisions sitting there doing nothing and it would be next to impossible for japan to mount enough troops to capture it fast enough for the US not to blow the hell out of the invasion fleets... Remember if you land troops at PH, the Allied player WILL sortie every ship out of the harbor and many of them will be warships with no damage that will engage your transport TFs and blow them out of the water.

But the real reason is PH is not worth anything.. Have the KB stick around a few days and blow the hell out of everything - including the repair yards and then forget about it. Suva is much more important to the war effort than PH is and in the middle of nowhere, giving both sides the same problems to support it. PH is to close to the west coast.

Xargun



Faker than Hollywood -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 11:50:12 PM)

quote:

PH is to close to the west coast.


What is KB, please ?

"PH has 2 Divisions sitting there doing nothing " STRAFE THEM, CHASE THEM, SHOOT THEM-- simple wounds will become lethal for want of medical care and evac.

Won't the Suva option lead to another Guadalcanal shoe string debacle that play's into US hands by giving the USN time to gear-up ? Is all the talk about the ship fuel/oil in PH stocks bunk or was their in reality huge stocks there at 7 Dec '41 ?

Are you going to hit PH repeatedly to keep it subdued ?

Has anyone just stood toe-to-toe with PH and whatever the west coast can dish-out AND like heavyweight Ali used the Japs to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee ? If IJN lose eight BB's and eight or nine aircraft carriers sewing-up PH and the Panama Canal Zone can't they use heavy cruisers to bombard the 2 Div's at PH into oblivion ? The Japs need to keep charging over their own dead bodies in an endless human wave from the get-go the way I see it ? If they love their ships so much they are not willing to lose a lot of them they WILL be overwhelmed in short order, right ? G4M Torps and Emily's can pinch-hit while they get busy on Shinano. Japs need to kill every american west of Long Beach as close to 7/8 Dec '41 as possible the way I see it and they can knock out Clark Field and shipping then later turn around and mop-up the PI after PH-- or is that unsound ?

Is PH just a propaganda icon or a REAL staging base for IJN forward operations against krummie kommie Lend Lease/AlCan, Panama Canal Zone entries, and the west coast ? USN Silent Service WW II after action reports discussed how critical PH was for the USN subs that killed-off Jap marus ? Is that bunk ? How can the Japs shut-down the US subs ? How can the Japs stop the USN from sending their overwhelming shipping industrial might into the PTO through Panama Canal Zone ?



Nikademus -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/8/2004 11:53:23 PM)

"Kido Butai"

means roughly "striking force" or "mobile striking force" (the Japanese carrier fleet)



Faker than Hollywood -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/9/2004 12:21:54 AM)

quote:

SRA


Murrin, Hi !

What is SRA, please ?

How come IJN can't hold and supply PH ? What can the post-multiple strike AM 7 Dec '41 USN do ? Fight their carriers ? That's an even match against blooded veterans flushed with victory. KB PH wants that action.

Where will help come from if IJN seals-off Panama Canal Zone ? (Can the game be adjusted to reflect IJN PCZ control in some way ?)



Bandkanon -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/9/2004 12:29:36 AM)

SRA is Southern Resource Area, Basically its Southeast Asia



Bandkanon -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/9/2004 12:33:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faker than Hollywood

quote:

SRA


Murrin, Hi !

What is SRA, please ?

How come IJN can't hold and supply PH ? What can the post-multiple strike AM 7 Dec '41 USN do ? Fight their carriers ? That's an even match against blooded veterans flushed with victory. KB PH wants that action.

Where will help come from if IJN seals-off Panama Canal Zone ? (Can the game be adjusted to reflect IJN PCZ control in some way ?)



I think the answer to all of your questions on why the IJN can't do anything like you mentioned is because the lack of supplies and fuel. The Japanese only have about 180 days of resources and oil to tie them over so they need to be very aggressive and seize the Allied bases in the SRA. Going to PH with KB cost the Japanese something like a year's supply of fuel during peace times according to historian John Toland. So you can imagine doing anything beyond Pearl will destroy the Japanese's chances of coming to a truce with the Allies.

Sticking around after Dec. 7 will just mean more destroyed ships. Although USN carriers will be ok since they won't be at Pearl, unless the campaign is on a variable setting, then there is a chance the carriers on in Pearl.



Faker than Hollywood -> RE: Japanese Production Requirements (7/9/2004 8:32:43 AM)

quote:

SRA is Southern Resource Area, Basically its Southeast Asia


Thank you.

Bandkanon, Hi ! I need to read some John Toland.

You said, Sticking around after Dec. 7 will just mean more destroyed ships. Although USN carriers will be ok since they won't be at Pearl, unless the campaign is on a variable setting, then there is a chance the carriers on in Pearl.

Maybe, leaving a marginal force to conqueor SRA is risky. Maybe taking PH and blowing the locks at the Panama Canal is a pipe dream... I do know that the US of 1941 would NEVER NEVER accept TRUCE with Imperial Japan. A player might while in Command and THAT would be EXCELLENT. IJN consolodation, build-up, and then swoop-down on the US West Coast like the DIVINE WIND... You may have a strategy there. Tell me if it works. If I get to wargame this-- I'm going for the US throat. Take PH, Sieze PCZ, and hunt the USN like cornerd drowning rats on a sinking ship. Tora Tora Tora !
I look forward to reading about how this all wargames out here. Thanks. Bansai/Victory at Sea !



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