Four engine dive bombers????? (Full Version)

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PBYPilot -> Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 2:12:17 AM)

Waiting for the first turn to come in on my first PBEM game and was looking up the historical info about the Pearl Harbor attack. Here's the beginning of the United Press article that ran in the New York Times the day after.

quote:

JAPANESE HIT HARD AT BASES ON OAHU AMERICAN NAVAL BASE ATTACKED FROM AIRBy The United Press..: Dec 8, 1941.

Dateline:   HONOLULU, Dec. 7

First Paragraph
HONOLULU, Dec. 7 -- War broke with lightning suddenness in the Pacific today when waves of Japanese bombers attacked Hawaii this morning and the United States Fleet struck back with a thunder of big naval rifles. Japanese bombers, including four-engined dive bombers and torpedo-carrying planes, blasted at Pearl Harbor, the great United States naval base, the city of Honolulu and several outlying American military bases ...



So watch out for those four engine dive bombers [:D]

PBY Pilot
"Slow airplanes and fast women"



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 2:14:25 AM)

FOW baby!



Jaypea -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 2:17:29 AM)

Those four engine "dive bombers" were probably misidentified B-17s that tried to land at Oahu [:-]



2Stepper -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 2:25:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaypea

Those four engine "dive bombers" were probably misidentified B-17s that tried to land at Oahu [:-]


Of that I'm certain... They are STILL talking about that little gaff 63yrs later. LOL!



gunnergoz -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 4:29:56 AM)

Well, they WERE bombers and they DO have 4 engines and they WERE diving to dodge all the friendly flak and enemy fighters, so what's the error? That they were Japanese? Just a little journalistic oversight. 3 facts out of 4 ain't bad. [:D]



Caltone -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 4:32:14 AM)

I suppose you could dive bomb with a B-17. Just gonna make a big mess when you try and pull up after dropping the eggs. [:D]

Thanks for the article, good stuff.



Charles2222 -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 5:19:15 AM)

Then again, remember the all-German-tanks-are-Tigers syndrome.



Arnir -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 5:26:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

I suppose you could dive bomb with a B-17. Just gonna make a big mess when you try and pull up after dropping the eggs. [:D]

Thanks for the article, good stuff.


Well, if the USAAF adopted suicide tactics, maybe the B-17 would become an effective anti-shipping weapon? [:)]

BTW, anyone take a B-17 down to 100 feet and use it to strafe yet? [:D]



Caltone -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 6:08:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arnir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

I suppose you could dive bomb with a B-17. Just gonna make a big mess when you try and pull up after dropping the eggs. [:D]

Thanks for the article, good stuff.


Well, if the USAAF adopted suicide tactics, maybe the B-17 would become an effective anti-shipping weapon? [:)]

BTW, anyone take a B-17 down to 100 feet and use it to strafe yet? [:D]


Boy wouldn't that make a heck of a kamikaze. Throw out all the side guns and crew and fill er up boys [:D]



PBYPilot -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 8:06:41 AM)

quote:

JAPANESE HIT HARD AT BASES ON OAHU AMERICAN NAVAL BASE ATTACKED FROM AIRBy The United Press..: Dec 8, 1941.

Dateline:   HONOLULU, Dec. 7

First Paragraph
HONOLULU, Dec. 7 -- War broke with lightning suddenness in the Pacific today when waves of Japanese bombers attacked Hawaii this morning and the United States Fleet struck back with a thunder of big naval rifles. Japanese bombers, including four-engined dive bombers and torpedo-carrying planes, blasted at Pearl Harbor, the great United States naval base, the city of Honolulu and several outlying American military bases ...


Who's going to tell Brady they're not in the game? Not me....

PBYPilot
"Slow airplanes and fast women"



Odin -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 8:37:09 AM)

That reminds me of old Adolf.....someoneone wanted to build a 4-engined Bomber and he told them:

If you want to build such a thing, it should be fully dive-bombing capable[:D]



von Murrin -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 8:49:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arnir
Well, if the USAAF adopted suicide tactics, maybe the B-17 would become an effective anti-shipping weapon? [:)]

BTW, anyone take a B-17 down to 100 feet and use it to strafe yet? [:D]


You mean skip-bombing? Yes I have. It doesn't work too well three days into the war, though. [:D]



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 9:08:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaypea

Those four engine "dive bombers" were probably misidentified B-17s that tried to land at Oahu [:-]


Of that I'm certain... They are STILL talking about that little gaff 63yrs later. LOL!


True. But no one remembers the poor SBD jockeys who flew in from the Enterprise (IIRC) and got shot to hell.



von Murrin -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 9:10:19 AM)

SBD's aren't as glamorous as sky giants and burning battleships.[;)]



CJ Martin -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 1:16:46 PM)

If I remember correctly, the first skip bombing attacks were made with B-17's. For real.

-CJ



Pascal_slith -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 4:27:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunnergoz

Well, they WERE bombers and they DO have 4 engines and they WERE diving to dodge all the friendly flak and enemy fighters, so what's the error? That they were Japanese? Just a little journalistic oversight. 3 facts out of 4 ain't bad. [:D]


That's far better than average for 99% of journalists...[;)]



paullus99 -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 4:56:02 PM)

Remote-controlled B-17's packed with explosives were used in the ETO, if I recall. In fact, Joe Jr. Kennedy was killed when the plane he was flying exploded prematurely over the English Channel (I think the idea was the fly the plane into the area of the target, then jump out - but I'm not sure on that one).



Mike Scholl -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 6:36:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

I suppose you could dive bomb with a B-17. Just gonna make a big mess when you try and pull up after dropping the eggs. [:D]


Actually it would be almost impossible. They have no "dive brakes, so once you nose them over and get going you are pretty much a kamikaze whether you want to be or not.
Secondly, with their internal bomb storage on racks, they couldn't release them when
nose down (and if they did release they would come through the cockpit). You might be
able to "glide bomb" with one if you kept the incline slight, but basically they are "dump
trucks" designed to release bombs when flighing straight and level.



Peever -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 6:49:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

I suppose you could dive bomb with a B-17. Just gonna make a big mess when you try and pull up after dropping the eggs. [:D]


Actually it would be almost impossible. They have no "dive brakes, so once you nose them over and get going you are pretty much a kamikaze whether you want to be or not.
Secondly, with their internal bomb storage on racks, they couldn't release them when
nose down (and if they did release they would come through the cockpit). You might be
able to "glide bomb" with one if you kept the incline slight, but basically they are "dump
trucks" designed to release bombs when flighing straight and level.


joke ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jk)
n.
1)Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2)A mischievous trick; a prank.
3)An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4)Informal.
A)Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
B)An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.



UncleBuck -> RE: Four engine dive bombers????? (7/8/2004 8:44:34 PM)

Actually you can and they did dive bomb with B-17's. THe later model 17's (G's and onward) had hardpoints onteh wings that would let them fly ing "Overload" The US did set them up with just external bombs and this increased the range. They were not as accurate as say a SBD but they had great range. They did need to drop from a higher altitude to allow for them to pull up. It was not done often as it also necessitated the removal or securing of the crew, since high Angle dives and pull outs are tough on the gunners :) . I don't know that they ever used them operationally but it coudl be done. Saw this on a PTO B-17 page, that I am now trying to find again:(

UB



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