Not the game I was hoping for (Full Version)

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Kharkov -> Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:10:50 PM)

First of all let me state that I loved Pac War, corny graphics and all! The complexity and depth of that gameplay perfectly complimented the scope of the pacific theatre. You could play a few hours a night and reach a conclusion to the war usually in a week or two. The complex stuff was hidden away from view, you concentrated on the strategic aspects of waging the war leaving the computer to work out the details. The game was fun!

Now we come to WITP....

What a chore! [:o] and Production? WTF! I need a maths degree to work out how to increase the production of Betty bombers! Going through several hundread bases (it certainly felt that) micro managing each one is not my idea of fun, more like a job and mind numbing boring one at that. It took me 3 hours just to do the first turn, then sat through 30 mins of gumph waiting for the computer to process it all. Guys, I have a life and cant afford to spend the next 5 years playing this.

Dont get me wrong, I WANT to like this game but hell, its trying its best to get uninstalled from my pc.

Its too much, I think thats the best way to say it. For such an epic war the level of detail is mind boggling and way too much to take in. Just looking at the Japanese homelands and the level of detail in the home islands gives me a headache never mind the other 90% of the map.

I realise that most of you guys here will love this game but for your average Jo on the street its a no no purchase.

Consider making a WITP lite version for us normal people along the same complexity of Pac War [;)] Not all of us have maths degrees, the memory of an elephant and the time available to play this game out.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:17:32 PM)

They are, it's called "World at War".

WitP on the other hand is aimed at Advanced Grognards and as you'll probably find out the majority of folks want MORE in it, not LESS.



ggallagher -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:19:10 PM)

WITP Lite:

Roll 1 die....

If 1-5, US wins
On 6, Japan wins.

Now please move along, nothing more for you to see or comment on in this neighborhood.......



Tenzan -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:20:04 PM)

Isn't playing as the Allies "WITP Lite?"

heh..at least, in the early and late war, it is. either you're dying with no recourse, or killing in kind



WiTP_Dude -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:21:30 PM)

I agree the big scenario can be overwhelming at first. Try starting with one of the smaller scenarios. The smaller ones don't have production and just focus on one area on the map.

Then play one of the big ones as the Allies. You don't have to worry about production with them.



freeboy -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:21:58 PM)

[:D]Hum.. well I am anti a/r so this level of detail does get annoying.. but I have found that like learning anything new.. it makes sense after awhile and you don't need to micromanage nearly as much as it appears at first.. I've played as the Emperor twice for one month.. currently at about jan 10 or so and my focus is on what my forces are doing and how to do it better.. this is a blast.. and if you liked pacwar you'll love this baby.. even if it does need to be potty trained a little [:D]



Nikademus -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:26:43 PM)

i dont even mess with production (maybe later i will) save to convert superfluous A5M4 factories over to A6M2



Tanaka -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:26:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tenzan

Isn't playing as the Allies "WITP Lite?"

heh..at least, in the early and late war, it is. either you're dying with no recourse, or killing in kind


yes i agree playing as japan is a whole new bigger scarier monster. godzilla maybe??? [8|]



Chaplain -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:34:31 PM)

"Isn't playing as the Allies called 'WitP Lite' ... "

ROFL. I love it! Yes, sir - you win a cigar! [:D]



Nikademus -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:35:35 PM)

indeed.....playing Japan in the early scenerio is tough! Though it does have it's good points...... (evil chuckle)



carnifex -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:39:04 PM)

Kharkov, are you aware that you can set everything to computer control? You don't need to manage anything. Go to the sector map, click Computer Control for all the zones, then go into the main map and you can individually set stuff to human control. If you set a base to human control all the units in the hex and task forces that call that base home become human controlled.

This way you can only control the 4th fleet if you want to (or any other force) and you don't have to worry about anything else.



m10bob -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/8/2004 11:47:34 PM)

If you are serious about a "WITP LITE",I strongly reccomend UV..It may also be considered a primer for WITP..I will take the time to play thru WITP and really doubt anybody can do it justice for another 6 months unless they are retired,etc..A turn or two a day will be just fine..[:)]



Nikademus -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 12:04:19 AM)

better advice was to stick (for now) to the smaller scenerios such as "South Pacific" (The UV equivilent) or "Rising Sun"

Dont gotta worry about production....your logistics are far simplified and the map and assets are smaller.



mavraam -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 12:07:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

Kharkov, are you aware that you can set everything to computer control? You don't need to manage anything. Go to the sector map, click Computer Control for all the zones, then go into the main map and you can individually set stuff to human control. If you set a base to human control all the units in the hex and task forces that call that base home become human controlled.

This way you can only control the 4th fleet if you want to (or any other force) and you don't have to worry about anything else.


That's my plan. I'll need the training wheels of computer control at first for the full campaign while I figure out about a million details of how everything works. I figure I'll take one sector and let the CPU handle the rest.

But I think this thing ROCKS! I'm still dickin around with the Tutorial scenario for the third time, I learn better that way.

I've never played a naval war game before, I've always been a land guy. The Navy has always existed for the explicit purpose of getting my troops and supplies to the battle so the 'real war' can begin. But this game has converted me.

I know it has its problems, unrealistic ASW possibly, and some other minor gitches but how could anyone expect anything else with a game this complex???

This is the best war game I've ever played. IMHO. [:D]



Capitaine -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 12:14:58 AM)

Guys, at 12 hr intervals, playing the whole enchilada just isn't feasible EVEN for grogs like myself. Even if you played on a 7-day order schedule, you still go through EVERY interval.

This isn't a game, it's a WWII Pacific Theater sandbox.

In fact, WitP is "It", IMO. (True grogs will note the A. Moon reference from his "The Asylum" column in AH's "General" magazine.) [X(]

To make this more of a "game", we need some good operational scenarios. I'm not a scen. designer so I don't volunteer. [:'(]



brisd -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 12:51:48 AM)

I think Mr Kharkov would like the scale of classic PacWar, with weekly turns and less micro-management. I would prefer that game too, just modernized. But WITP is what it is and I bought it and am playing it. And turning over the game to the AI via computer control is NOT an option. You might as well not play at all. This game will appeal to only fanatics, not the average wargamer. World at War is going to be a fun beer and pretzels game. What many of us PacWar fans wanted was THAT game brought up to modern computer standards, a playable strategic level War in the Pacific. I think many of us will be playing with 3 day turns in campaign games just to finish them this decade! [:'(]

A vote for less is more, sometimes.



Bandkanon -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 1:03:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brisd

I think Mr Kharkov would like the scale of classic PacWar, with weekly turns and less micro-management. I would prefer that game too, just modernized. But WITP is what it is and I bought it and am playing it. And turning over the game to the AI via computer control is NOT an option. You might as well not play at all. This game will appeal to only fanatics, not the average wargamer. World at War is going to be a fun beer and pretzels game. What many of us PacWar fans wanted was THAT game brought up to modern computer standards, a playable strategic level War in the Pacific. I think many of us will be playing with 3 day turns in campaign games just to finish them this decade! [:'(]

A vote for less is more, sometimes.



What are you talking man! I'm playing this thing day by day. If they have it for hour by hour I would be even happier!! [:D]



ggallagher -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 1:13:52 AM)

Well then, perhaps the upcoming (?) Matrix title, World in Flames will be closer to what you are looking for.

I would ask though, that we stay away from the hopefully unintentional slurs of those of us that do like WitP as being "fanatics" or other than "nomral"....I don't think this ad honimem approach was intended, but it does make me bristle nonetheless.

Let's face it, EVERY wargamer, by definition, is not your run of the mill, average, normal gamer....those types play Risk, Axis & Allies and Stratego and believe they are realistic wargames. Many of us gamers do prefer that SOME of our games (as appropriate) be more complex and detailed than others. For me - and likely others - the heavily logistical nature of the Pacific War calls for a simulation with a level of detail in that realm above the norm.

However, I would not want to see a similarly complex game (logistically) on the European Theater....and while I do revel in the richness and complexity of WitP, I can also love a good B&P diversion as well.....

I need a bumper sticker that says "My other wargame is Korsun Pocket"



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 1:16:31 AM)

I agree with ya Band 100%. If WitP had been anything less than it is i wouldn't have spent the money. This is the Pacific War game(sim) in all its glory, hardships, and horrors. I hope they never scale it back with any patch, just tighten up a few things. But i understand the WitP is not for everyone.[:D]



Slick91 -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 1:24:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov

I realise that most of you guys here will love this game but for your average Jo on the street its a no no purchase.



This game was NEVER designed for the “average Joe on the street”.

Why in Hell did you think it came with a $70 price tag?!

If it is too much to handle, maybe you should grab a copy of Uncommon Valor.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 1:27:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ggallagher

WITP Lite:

Roll 1 die....

If 1-5, US wins
On 6, Japan wins.

Now please move along, nothing more for you to see or comment on in this neighborhood.......


Hehe [:D]



Joel Billings -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 3:32:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine


This isn't a game, it's a WWII Pacific Theater sandbox.

To make this more of a "game", we need some good operational scenarios. I'm not a scen. designer so I don't volunteer. [:'(]


This is the best description of WitP that I've seen. I agree with Capitaine, although there are many for whom the full campaign is a game, and the only game in town. For those that don't have time for the full campaign (and I bet there's a lot of people in that category), we provided the editors so gamers could create great operational scenarios like UV. I hope there are some industrious WitP owners out there that would like to share their historical knowledge and creativity with the rest of us.



captskillet -> RE: Not the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 4:16:46 AM)

Play the Allies and let the Computer handle the ares of the map you dont want to mess with! I liked PacWar also when it came out along with all the other Grigsby creations but his latest(WITP) makes PacWar look like kids stuff.



mccavage -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 4:28:12 AM)

It is everything I'd hoped for so far and yes, I'm perfectly fine with the Grand Campaign taking months to play.

Hearts of Iron, Axis and Allies and World at War will all meet scaled down needs to one degree or another. This game is for people who have relatively few games and really play the wheels off the few that meet their preferences.



nmzoomie -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 4:42:08 AM)

I figure at 4 game days for each real time day I should finish the grand campaign as Japan in about 373 days. Now that is value for the money spent. I personally find that keeping a written log of objectives and task forces involved goes a long way toward keeping things from becoming overwhelming.



Moose 4075 -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 6:15:09 AM)

So far, I'm finding that this game isn't what I hoped for either; my CD isn't here yet!!!



Platoonist -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 6:24:06 AM)

Me too! I'm camped out by the mailbox waiting. Then I can finally dump this stupid banner. [:D]



CommC -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 6:59:54 AM)

I agree with Kharkov for the most part.

But in terms where to go from here, for most of us more casual gamers, and speaking for myself, I will probably never play the grand campaign. But I am having a blast with the smaller scenarios, Coral Sea, Marianas and eventually I'll work up to Guadalcanal.

I think the key question here, is what if any modest changes are possible to make one week turns a possibility for the grand campaign. i.e assigning objectives to theater HQs, etc and a resource allocation system, etc. With a few minor tweaks, I think a really playable game of the grand campaign would be possible.



pad152 -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 7:31:28 AM)

It really takes playing the game for about 20Hrs before you start to become comfortable with the game, maybe more if you never played Uncommon Valor. I've been playing the game from almost a week and I'm still finding new stuff I'didn't know and some things I'm still not sure of.

Don't give up yet!

The first turn is a real Bitch![:D]

Don't worry about production for the first 30days.
It really takes time to get you head around everything but when you do it's not ony fun but very very rewarding!



brisd -> RE: Is the game I was hoping for (7/9/2004 8:08:46 AM)

I don't regret my use of "fanatic" and consider myself one. PacWar and UV had a steep learning curve and I enjoyed them both, esp. PacWar. I figure I'm mastering WITP pretty well and haven't given up on it yet. I would have preferred less operational and more strategic, to concentrate on the STRATEGY and less on the endless mouse clicking all over the map. I prefer the grand strategy of the whole Pacific War and intend to play it (Scenario 15) 95% of the time. The game was advertised correctly and I knew what I was getting into having played UV before, so I am not complaining too much. I just wanted to add my opinion as I agree with alot of what the originator of this thread wrote. Now back to conquering Singapore! [8D]



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