The Next Mega Campaign For Steel Panthers (Full Version)

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MARTIN HALL -> The Next Mega Campaign For Steel Panthers (1/7/2002 5:03:00 AM)

I wonder are there any plans to do any more Mega Campaigns after Watchtower or does the ongoing development of CL preclude this?



Redleg -> (1/7/2002 5:24:00 AM)

I am betting that if enough of us purchased the M/C that there may be another. From what little I know, the sales haven't supported the projects. Very sad, because at least for us in the U.S., the price of a M/C is really quite minimal. Besides, V7 comes on a CD. To me, that was worth something. If there were to be another M/C which was highly organized like Watchtower was, it would probably tempt me into donating goodness only knows how many hours of design to the project (if I were asked). I would like to see a "mini-campaign". That is, a substantial sized campaign made up of smaller battles - perhaps along the lines of a series of the ASL battles. But, that is another subject. I certainly hope that we purchase these M/C.



Don Doom -> (1/7/2002 6:17:00 AM)

I hope not! I had fun making and testing L.V. & WatchTower. I also learned a lot about design and playtesting. don



Warrior -> (1/7/2002 6:30:00 AM)

When Combat Leader comes out even the most hard-core SPWaW addicts will probably recognize how vastly superior the new game is and leave SPWaW behind. But then, there are still people playing all the old, obsolete games that get mentioned in the Forum, so maybe not. So, another Mega Campaign...? Sure, if you do it. [ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Warrior ]



MARTIN HALL -> (1/7/2002 6:58:00 AM)

Part of the reason I was asking the question is if you note from my thread elsewhere actually obtaining the disks over here in Europe just got a lot easier.
If my prediction is correct i.e that poor MC sales in the past are nothing to do with ethusiasm or quality but pure logistics - i.e most of the world had a nigtmare getting same - then hopefully things will improve and the MC's will stand as a source of revenue for Matrix whilst it works on CL.
If I am right would Matrix stay with a good thing, I wonder, and add a 4th MC disk to fill the SPWAW - CL gap.



pops -> (1/7/2002 9:54:00 AM)

....fergod's sake get 'em into a store...I bet a lot more people would buy them off the shelf....I simply can't buy anything on my credit card with the US dollar/shipping and handling etc......if I could BELIEVE ME I would!!!!!! ...I wonder if the extra sales off the shelf would make up for the lower profit to Matrix selling fewer through the mail.....?



Randy -> (1/7/2002 11:46:00 AM)

Redleg is right on about the price! The price of just having the disk I think is very minimal. For and idea about a future campaign I would like to suggest an often over looked area such as the Burma Campaign. Such a campaign could be about the Chindits, with air drops and hit and run tactics.



Randy -> (1/7/2002 11:50:00 AM)

SUPPORT MATRIX, BUY A CD!!



Wild Bill -> (1/7/2002 12:48:00 PM)

It is possible. It is always possible. Let's see what interest there is. I'm interested in doing one. They are tons of work but I'm willing if there is interest and support. Wild Bill



Redleg -> (1/7/2002 12:52:00 PM)

Let's purchase a M/C, play it and talk it up. We can lure WB into his honcho role and suffer mightily for a month or so while he alternates between cracking the whip and shouting encouragement. LOL



achappelle -> (1/7/2002 2:39:00 PM)

My 2 cents would be perhaps an M/C following say the British 7th Armd Desert Rats. Big Project spanning most of the war but.. Also, if a new MC project was started, I would be happy to VOLUNTEER my time dry running through scenarios. At the very least it would teach me more about scenario design for when I do mine.



AbsntMndedProf -> (1/7/2002 9:25:00 PM)

I plan to buy CL when it comes out, but I doubt it will replace SP:WaW in my gaming heart! As long as Matrix puts out new MCs, and I have the HD space for them, I'll keep buying and playing them. (I'll have to schedule SP:WaW and CL days. Perhaps M,W,F; SP:WaW, T,Th,Sat; CL, with Sunday off.) Eric Maietta



Grumble -> (1/8/2002 12:30:00 AM)

There was some discussion from my fellow Huomis from Suomi, about doing a Winter War/Continuation War/Lapland War MC. Haven't seen anything lately about it, though. Possibly looking to see how the other two do, first...



kutalik -> (1/8/2002 1:48:00 AM)

Yep, I suppose if we want to see a new MC, we most certainly need to prove that's that our favorite DIY game is economically viable for Matrix. That means using that allmighty word of mouth (other wargamer or gamer forums for instance). BTW I'm having a real blast with Watchtower. The battles have a nice dramatic pacing to them. I find myself almost grinding my teeth. Kudos (also nice, nice work on the documents finding myself learning more on a subject I already felt relatively well versed in).



Frank W. -> (1/8/2002 2:08:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by MARTIN HALL:
I wonder are there any plans to do any more Mega Campaigns after Watchtower or does the ongoing development of CL preclude this?

i personaly would not buy a megacamp in near future. just because of lack of time. havenīt finished the "long,long road" and still 2 normal camps to play, further i have lost victories. further i work+sleep+play castle wolfenstein and so on. too much gaming,too less time. but matrix products are great i think,so anyone who have the time and money should buy them!!!



David Heath -> (1/8/2002 2:44:00 AM)

Hi Guys Need I say how much Wild Bill loves doing these mega campagins but the fact is that they are not selling anywhere enough to really do another. The fact is MCWT is not even at half way mark of the other two campaigns. We are going to wait a month or so and see but I really think we want to move Wild Bill on to Combat Leader and Battleline scenario and campaign design. Like I said let us see how the next month goes and we will let you know.



RolandRahn_MatrixForum -> (1/8/2002 3:10:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
When Combat Leader comes out even the most hard-core SPWaW addicts will probably recognize how vastly superior the new game is and leave SPWaW behind. But then, there are still people playing all the old, obsolete games that get mentioned in the Forum, so maybe not. So, another Mega Campaign...? Sure, if you do it. [ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Warrior ]
Hmmm...
The 1st CL-Module will be the eastern front.
Then comes CA.
Then CL:Moderna.
For those who like to play as US, UK, e.t.c. it will be a long time until they can play their favorite side in CL....
quote:

Originally posted by David Heath:
Need I say how much Wild Bill loves doing these mega campagins but the fact is that they are not selling anywhere enough to really do another. The fact is MCWT is not even at half way mark of the other two campaigns.
I'm really disappointed to hear that. Also I'm currently just in the 5th scenario of MCLV, I know it is worth every cent I paid for it... And I'm *really* waiting for the MCWT(s) I ordered.... I simply can't understand that you didn't sell enough MCs. Kind regards,
Roland



Redleg -> (1/8/2002 3:18:00 AM)

I don't understand it either - a whole lot of gaming in each of the mega-campaigns.



richmonder -> (1/8/2002 5:56:00 AM)

David, My guess as to why MCWT is so low in sales compared to the others is quite simple - those of us who have bought MCLV have just got it. Or, like me, are just waiting to get it - well, I got MCNA AND MCLV together, so they'll be my first ones - period! So while I KNOW for a fact that I will be purchasing MCWT (cause WBW is all over it!), I want to at least get my first MC's in my hand. As for some of the other folks, I think they need to get a little playtime with MCLV first. Then they'll probably spring for MCWT. I hope you can incorporate that into how Matrix views the sales of MCWT at this point. Following back to back with a MC causes some sales lag, I would think. I know I won't purchase it for another few months.



Wild Bill -> (1/8/2002 6:12:00 AM)

There are currently none in the works that I know of, so if it were to happen, it would be some four months, based on the first two I and my teams did before it would be ready. It takes just that long, depending on the size of the MC. MC-Desert Fox took three months. MCLV took nine months. MC-W took another three months. So they don't just roll off the assembly line. First there is the selection and establishment of a team of persons from 15-30. Then there are weeks of solid research to line up a series of battles. Then there is the scenario design, the testing, the searching for adequate pictures, the writing and proof reading of hundreds of articles. Finally there is the compilation or putting together of all of this into a homogenous whole. THEN! Then comes the testing, hundreds of hours more of teating the MC start to finish. When you have 50-100 scenarios in a mega campaign, that takes awhile. You want all articles in order, with pics in order. They all have to be 8 letter file names. You have to check it all, watch for crashes, correct problems, put out fires and stay on your medication Then one day, after your hair has fallen out, your team members are prostrate with exhaustion and you are on your very last nerve, the beauty rolls off the assembly floor and your forget all you have been through to make it happen. So, no, we won't have "pop-corn" mega campaigns. They take one third of your life for one year to get 'em done. Wild Bill



Grumble -> (1/8/2002 6:20:00 AM)

Yeah, but MCNA's been out for QUITE some time, and the mail ordering hoohah's been sorted out. Yet, according to Paul on a previous thread, sales are still disappointing. MCLV's only been out a couple weeks, basically, but projecting sales shows it won't water anyone's eyes either.
I submit, if anyone's looking for a "reason", then maybe the folks immediately posting the "it SUCKS" messages on the forum no doubt discouraged some buyers.
Before outraged members start posting, I"m not saying if there's a problem don't say anything, but there's a difference between a program issue one can work around and a major failure...



Randy -> (1/8/2002 2:19:00 PM)

I got notice today from UPS that my WT disk should be delivered on Wed. Last week I got two LV's disks. I think some people may not have ordered due to the load error, which most people seem to have corrected. There are about 4000 of us, so lets buy some games!!



Hortlund -> (1/8/2002 9:21:00 PM)

Perhaps anthrax scares in the US postal system has made people reluctant to order stuff via mail from the US? I dunno. I sit possible to make it a buyable download? (i e pay $ 25 to get access to server who lets you download it)



achappelle -> (1/8/2002 10:55:00 PM)

I think Paul addressed the ESD issue in another thread, and had reasons why it wasn't pracical. I can't get the search function to work at the moment, but maybe someone else can remember.



Scorpion_sk -> (1/10/2002 6:11:00 AM)

Well, I think itīs time to move the men and resources towards getting CL done faster. I think Iīll be content with my 3 MCs, playing them will probably take a load of time (based on MC F....which is huge. MCLV seems to be simply staggeringly huge while MC:W is smaller but well designed). Now, I do have to say that Iīm a bit disappointed that you couldnīt affect the "big picture" of the campaign (at least not in MC F...you always fail to take Tobruk, never drive on to Egypt and always get kicked out despite continued victories at critical spots....I can see that a KG is just a KG, but this still....oh and it looked like some of the key battles were "rigged" to allow only draws or worse (manipulating the VPs and victory results). Anyway I hope that the campaigns in CL will be something else.
Campaigns are veeeeery important to me. I didnīt pick up Combat Mission specifically because it did not include any campaigns, just one-offs and small operations (ok, ok, the "3 soldiers displayed per squad-thing bugged me too"



chief -> (1/10/2002 12:20:00 PM)

Two of the possible reasons(IMHO)for slow sales of the megacampaigns could be that: (1)Matrix gave us an excellent free game with many camps and scenarios to whet our appetite and some of us are still working on them. (2) Now along comes MCNA, another great camp from Matrix, it takes at least 60 hours of good wargamming to complete at least one cycle of play (didn't do too good either). Now right on top of this Matrix produces two more MCs. Please guys don't take this as a flame for all your good work, but we can't fit it all in at one time. (This comes from a guy who's retired and has plenty of time to spend on this comp)I am expecting MCLV tomorrow and I want MCW but the latter will have to wait and I have a feeling that a good many others are doing the same thing. I won't get into the cost that Euros and those in the Far East occur as another cause or that the economy suxs at this time. Thanks for this forum to vent my feelings and I trust I did not insult anyone.



skukko -> (1/10/2002 2:10:00 PM)

Lost Victories takes a year to play thru...



skukko -> (1/10/2002 2:17:00 PM)

Lost Victories takes a year to play thru... You have good point in your message. I have about 20 games waiting for my attention, all those are really good games from differend genres and I've collected them before they are forgotten and rare pieces... Same is with MCs, but these I do play. What gets in to my head is that I can't remeber where is First Steel Panthers MC, yes,that one I did get my hands to it years ago and have moved things in house many times after that, so its somewhere but the house ís big.... mosh



chief -> (1/10/2002 11:21:00 PM)

Skukko: "Ah yes...so many games and so little time".....



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