Level Bomber effectiveness (Full Version)

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doktor1957 -> Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 2:42:18 AM)

The manual is somewhat confusing. It indicates that level bombers will suffer a reduced effectiveness bombing at or below 5000. Is this correct? It seems to me that they would be more effective at lower altitudes. Further on, the manual indicates that bomber crews will suffer a possibly serious morale penalty bombing below 6000. If there is no benefit to lower altitude bombing effectiveness, why would anyone ever bomb below 6000?


Thanks,

Dave
San Diego



rogueusmc -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 6:04:22 AM)

The average bombsight on a WWII level bomber was optimum at 6000 feet I believe



Tanaka -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 6:13:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor1957

The manual is somewhat confusing. It indicates that level bombers will suffer a reduced effectiveness bombing at or below 5000. Is this correct? It seems to me that they would be more effective at lower altitudes. Further on, the manual indicates that bomber crews will suffer a possibly serious morale penalty bombing below 6000. If there is no benefit to lower altitude bombing effectiveness, why would anyone ever bomb below 6000?


Thanks,

Dave
San Diego



hmmm so i guess the lower the altitude for attacking the better results you get doesnt apply anymore??? or at least for level bombers???



doktor1957 -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 7:02:55 AM)

I'm almost certain that the manual is in error here. Obviously, a bomber at lower altitude would be more accurate than one at higher altitude. I suspect the manual contains a misprint. The exact wording is, I believe, 'bombers at below (sic) 5000 suffer a penalty to accuracy and effectiveness.' I'll bet they meant at or above.

Dave
San Diego



bradfordkay -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 7:05:44 AM)

No, they meant below 6000 feet because the bombsights were designed for higher altitudes. As well, the aircrews tended to be a little more hasty with dumping the bombload when confronted with the heavier AA found at lower altitudes. We went through all this in UV. At first, level bombers were deadly at 1000 feet, adn had to be toned down.



Drongo -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 7:10:54 AM)

Effectively what it means is that level bombers will be more accurate the lower they fly up (down) to a point. That point is 5000 ft. At or below that, their accuracy is decreased. The optimal altitude for level bomber accuracy should be 6000 feet (excluding Flak effects).



Odin -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 9:08:38 AM)

Is that for 4-engined bombers?

Or for tacticals like B-25 and B-26 also?[X(]



irrgang -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 9:46:16 AM)

As I read the manual the morale drop for level bombers below 6000ft only occurs if there are more damaged planes than ready planes at the end of the resolution phase.



SunDevil_MatrixForum -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 10:19:11 AM)

In real life isn't flak more dangerous the lower the altitude you are? Does this come into play at all in the game?



Drongo -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/9/2004 10:23:33 AM)

Yes.



Tanaka -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/10/2004 12:12:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drongo

Effectively what it means is that level bombers will be more accurate the lower they fly up (down) to a point. That point is 5000 ft. At or below that, their accuracy is decreased. The optimal altitude for level bomber accuracy should be 6000 feet (excluding Flak effects).


how does this apply to level bombers like nells and betties that make torpedo attacks???does this apply to them as well???

if they are making port attacks you dont know if they will be launching torpedos or bombs.



Drongo -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/10/2004 12:57:10 PM)

It does not apply to torpedo attacks by level bombers as they are not level bombing. I think the penalty for the altitude is applied at the time of the actual attack (when the game has determined which weapon will be used).

IIRC, skip bombing is also not affected (although it has severe penalties of its own).



Deathifier -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/10/2004 1:00:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drongo

Effectively what it means is that level bombers will be more accurate the lower they fly up (down) to a point. That point is 5000 ft. At or below that, their accuracy is decreased. The optimal altitude for level bomber accuracy should be 6000 feet (excluding Flak effects).


how does this apply to level bombers like nells and betties that make torpedo attacks???does this apply to them as well???

if they are making port attacks you dont know if they will be launching torpedos or bombs.


Planes doing dive or torpedo attacks follow their own rules (fly to target at set altitude, dive to drop altitude, climb [maybe] and fly away).

If forced into a level bombing attack they'll fly at the altitude set.

- Deathifier



Pascal_slith -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/10/2004 5:39:21 PM)

Norden bombsight on US bombers was effective and very accurate above 7-8000 IIRC. Have to check the book on its history...



Tanaka -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/13/2004 6:22:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathifier

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drongo

Effectively what it means is that level bombers will be more accurate the lower they fly up (down) to a point. That point is 5000 ft. At or below that, their accuracy is decreased. The optimal altitude for level bomber accuracy should be 6000 feet (excluding Flak effects).


how does this apply to level bombers like nells and betties that make torpedo attacks???does this apply to them as well???

if they are making port attacks you dont know if they will be launching torpedos or bombs.


Planes doing dive or torpedo attacks follow their own rules (fly to target at set altitude, dive to drop altitude, climb [maybe] and fly away).

If forced into a level bombing attack they'll fly at the altitude set.

- Deathifier



ah yes but what if i want my nells to port attack hoping they will use torpedos at 1000ft. if they decide to use bombs then they will be penaltied. this is what im saying. you cant set your level bombers to torpedo attack under 5000 feet because they may get the level bomber penalty if they are assigned bombs instead of torpedos which you have no control over.



Black Cat -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/13/2004 4:57:46 PM)

When the Allies started to use the twin engine bombers at low level against ships a iron bombsite costing about $2 was welded to the top front of the pilots instrument panel, simple thing, somethime calibrated for altitude, often just set at 500 or 1000' , that allowed you to line up the target as you approached.

B-52`s still used them in the 1970`s although they were now call " Last Resort Bombsites" and cost about $10,000[:D]



strawbuk -> RE: Level Bomber effectiveness (7/13/2004 5:12:46 PM)

With respect ie very little, sorry , NOT the bloody Norden stuff again. The most overated gadget (outside fanboyed Long Lances) Yeah, better in that it could actually put a bomb on A city block not one of 4 but that's about it. (Please put me straight using proving ground data and I'll point you to Martin Middlebrook on Regensburg). Any bom sight/bomber is more accurate at lower level if noone is shooting at them.

How to remove/put out of any target with a 4 engine heavy? Get LOTS of them, get LOTS of fighter to keep his out the way, keep them high enough not to be distracted by the 20-40mm aa tracer, low enough to see the aim point and don't worry about flattening the surrounding area.

Yes I am a Brit and yes we flattened cities with Lancs cause we could (and becuase we had really good pathfinders/radar/nav systems)


Mr 'just got smacked by AI today' grumpy



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