How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII?

How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (Full Version)

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Apollo11 -> How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 7:02:07 PM)
Hi all, How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? From many books and movies we know how US did amphibious operations but almost nothing (at least to my knowledge) is known of Japanese amphibious operations... So... here we go... #1 What ships did Japanese use for troop transport? #2 How far from enemy shore those transport ships anchored? #3 What technique they used to move troops from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? #4 What technique they used to move supply / heavy weapons (guns, tanks) from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? #5 What small craft types did they use for that ferry (see #3 and #4 above) from anchored transport ships to enemy shore? Thanks in advance! Leo "Apollo11"

Tenzan -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 7:45:32 PM)
just from memory-I don't have all my books around: 1)A mix-The IJ DID have a few specialized troop landers, but, mostly large cargo ships, conversions, etc..the Japanese didn't specialize as much as the US did. 2)Depends on the coastal conditions of the places invaded-For everyone in the war, it was generally as close as you could get, safely. 3)They had a varitey of small LCVP type craft...These were seen more during the early war-Later smaller launch type craft were reported to have been used...At the Zamboanga landings, the craft were described as 'cutter' type vessels 4)Ship-based cranes, usually 5)same as #3 That's pretty much as I remember it...I'll dig up some books that'd have the exact type designations and stuff if that's what you're looking for.

Mike Wood -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 8:07:51 PM)
Hello... The Japanese made very few opposed amphibious landings in WW II. Bye... Michael Wood quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? Leo "Apollo11"

Nikademus -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 8:38:11 PM)
The Japanese specialized in amphibious operations before the war. This should not be confused with amphibious assault which is a different kettle of fish. The former is often targeted at lightly defended or undefended points while the latter targets a heavily defended and entrenched position. Both however require a great degree of organization, coordination and planning. Ironically, the Japanese Army was the most experienced at this while the navy specialized more in supporting major landings with small contingents of troops, some specialzed, others meerly sailors armed with guns. However it should be noted that this was perhaps the one area where the otherwise dismal Japanese record in regards to inter-service cooperation was not present. As for actual operations and exercises; joint exercises were first conducted in the mid 1920's where basic issues and problems were mapped out. The Japanese got their first taste of actual landings in a combat situation in 1932 during the Shanghai fighting. The preformance of the Japanese naval landing troops left much to be desired and an army brigade had to be landed to assist. This fostered more changes and improvements. Biggest result of the incident was the Army opted to take the lead and develop their own amphibious op method (including landing ships and craft. At this point they became the dominant partner in this catagory. The Japanese conducted their first true major amphibious landings in 1937 when the war broke out with China, taking place at Hangchow Bay (11/37), at Ta-ya Wan near HK (10/38) and at the entrance to the Pearl River (10/38) So via a combination of a well worked out doctrine, and actual experience the Japanese were well prepared to conduct amphib ops at the start of WWII. However the navy never developed a true capability for amphibious ASSAULT such as seen at Wake Island, though the main cause of the failure there was a severe underestimation of the force levels required to take the small Atoll. During WWII itself the major Japanese amphibious landing occured in the PI's at Lingayen Bay and at Khota Bharu , more landings were supported in Sumatra, Java, Borneo and Suwalesi. Wake island of course well known as is the occupation of Guam. Most of these would be considered "operations", Khota Bharu however is described as having seen heavy fighting at the beaches so might qualify for an "assault".

Nikademus -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 8:46:22 PM)
quote: #1 What ships did Japanese use for troop transport? Often, converted or requisitioned Maru's were used to ferry troops in. The army did posess a few specialized landing ships and also developed some landing craft. quote: #2 How far from enemy shore those transport ships anchored? Often quite close to shore......however this was because they specialized in amphibious operations, purposely choosing lightly defended or undefended points bereft of strong coastal defenses. quote: #3 What technique they used to move troops from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? Troops were mostly ferried in by small open boat. Shores "Bloody Shambles" Vol 1 contains many detailed descriptions of this from accounts of Bleinhem pilots who were sent on bombing and straffing missions during the Sumatra and Malayan landings. quote: #4 What technique they used to move supply / heavy weapons (guns, tanks) from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? Dont have the exact details in my hands but Japanese doctrine did not differ greatly from early USMC doctrine for landings. If the specialized landing craft were available the Japanese could land heavy guns and AFV's. Believe the usual modus operandus was to land as many of the troops first as possible. This made sense given that during the opening stages of the war, the greatest danger was from the air....particularily the low flying and straffing Bleinhems. quote: #5 What small craft types did they use for that ferry (see #3 and #4 above) from anchored transport ships to enemy shore? As mentioned, in the absense of purpose built landing craft, believe they used your basic small ferry boat aka "motorized cutter" IIRC SNLF troops somtimes used small unpowered boats to stealthly land infantry as well. Believe they did this during the 2nd attempt to take Wake IS

Mike Scholl -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 8:52:50 PM)
NIK covered this pretty thoroughly. With regards to point #4, the Japanese "lightered" their heavy equipment ashore. This is standard practicefor anyone landing things in a port without pier facilities, or where the pier doesn't reach into deep enough water for the cargo vessel in question. Basically, a "Lighter" is some form of raft. Sometimes it's a flat, powered barge the port maintains, sometimes it's an ad hoc arraingement of a deck mounted on smaller boats, and sometimes it's just a raft. They did eventually build some LST-like vessels for dealing with this problem. It wasn't as major for them as for other armies, as they were basically an Infantry Force, with a smaller allotment of heavy equipment to deal with. For shorter ranged efforts, like spreading across New Guinea and throughout the Solomans, they liked their motorized barges. These resem- bled our "Higgins Boats" and were a primary method of moving troops, supplies, and light supporting weapons throughout much of the Pacific.

TulliusDetritus -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 9:06:08 PM)
Leo, here you are what I found out in a book (I hope I translate in correct english [:)] ): As for 1) The japanese transports had a medium size: 4 000 tons cargos, coastal traffic ships and even big fishing boats. A "standard" force for disembarking 20 000 men was composed of: - 40 transports of 3 000 to 6 000 tons - 1 "attack transport" (called "Tokushu Yusokan") of 6 000 to 10 000 tons - 6 mine sweepers And the escort: - 1 cruiser (I think a light one) and 12 destroyers To put the men on the beach they used the "Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai". As for 5), I guess the answer is like above: the "Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai". If my memory does not fail, AND it probably does (I could not find that information in the book but I know it is there) they were 14 and 19 meters long or something like that. As for 2), 3) and 4), sorry, but I can't help you [:)]

Lemurs! -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 9:35:48 PM)
Hi all, The other posters have given an ecellent view but i would like to add one thing. The Japanese CS ships had many cranes for operating their floatplanes and the Japanes both planned and used them to support the landing of artillery, armoured cars, etc. Mike

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 9:50:41 PM)
Hi all, Many thanks to all that answered! Leo "Apollo11"

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 10:01:45 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus During WWII itself the major Japanese amphibious landing occured in the PI's at Lingayen Bay and at Khota Bharu , more landings were supported in Sumatra, Java, Borneo and Suwalesi. Wake island of course well known as is the occupation of Guam. Most of these would be considered "operations", Khota Bharu however is described as having seen heavy fighting at the beaches so might qualify for an "assault". Are you sure that Japanese landed at Lingayen bay? The Japanese (as far as I know from my books) landed 20+ miles north of Lingayen bay on Dec 22 1941. McArthur did think that Japanese would land at Linguayen bay and he put strong force there (21st Philippine division). On Dec 11 1941 one single Japanese motor patrol boat was reconing and that triggered massive armed response from inexperienced Philippines who shown their positions. Funny enough Macarthur's HQ said that they repulsed mayor invasion and New York Times carried the news with massive headline "Japanese Forces wiped out on west Luzon - 154 enemy landing craft destroyed and no enemy soldier succeeded in landing"... [:)] Based on their recon Japanese switched invasion point north (invasion that was 11 days later and was unopposed). Leo "Apollo11"

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 10:06:13 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus quote: #1 What ships did Japanese use for troop transport? Often, converted or requisitioned Maru's were used to ferry troops in. The army did posess a few specialized landing ships and also developed some landing craft. RGR. quote: quote: #2 How far from enemy shore those transport ships anchored? Often quite close to shore......however this was because they specialized in amphibious operations, purposely choosing lightly defended or undefended points bereft of strong coastal defenses. OK. quote: quote: #3 What technique they used to move troops from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? Troops were mostly ferried in by small open boat. Shores "Bloody Shambles" Vol 1 contains many detailed descriptions of this from accounts of Bleinhem pilots who were sent on bombing and straffing missions during the Sumatra and Malayan landings. But how did they move troops from ship onto the smaller craft? Did they descend down the ships sides using nets like Allies did? quote: quote: #4 What technique they used to move supply / heavy weapons (guns, tanks) from transport ships onto smaller craft (to carry them on shore)? Dont have the exact details in my hands but Japanese doctrine did not differ greatly from early USMC doctrine for landings. If the specialized landing craft were available the Japanese could land heavy guns and AFV's. Believe the usual modus operandus was to land as many of the troops first as possible. This made sense given that during the opening stages of the war, the greatest danger was from the air....particularily the low flying and straffing Bleinhems. You think they used cranes on transport ships to off load the heavy stuff onto smaller craft? quote: quote: #5 What small craft types did they use for that ferry (see #3 and #4 above) from anchored transport ships to enemy shore? As mentioned, in the absense of purpose built landing craft, believe they used your basic small ferry boat aka "motorized cutter" IIRC SNLF troops somtimes used small unpowered boats to stealthly land infantry as well. Believe they did this during the 2nd attempt to take Wake IS Thanks a lot for all info! Leo "Apollo11"

TulliusDetritus -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/10/2004 11:17:17 PM)
Leo, I found out the information about 5) At the end of 1941, japanese had the landing crafts that I have said above: - "Dai Hatsu" => 14,6 meters - 8 knots - 10,5 tons It could carry 10 tons: a small tank, trucks, canons or soldiers. - The "Toku Dai Hatsu" was bigger => 17,6 meters - 9 knots It could carry a medium tank or two 8 tons tanks On june 1944 appeared the - "Nito Yusokan" => 1 000 tons (!!) - speed between 14 and 17 knots. It could carry 200 soldiers and 5 big tanks (or 7 medium tanks or 9 small ones). 50 units of this last serie were delivered. P.S.: as for the anglo saxon readers, hehe, you will have to pardon me, but I use decimal system. Just x3 and you will have the size in feet [:)]

Pascal_slith -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 12:07:23 AM)
The book published by the US Naval Institute Press titled "Japanese Naval Vessels of World War II" by A.D. Baker has a section illustrating the amphibious landings of the Japanese early in the war. An interesting reference as it is a reprint of the Office of Naval Intelligence's documents.

Ghostrider -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 2:30:28 AM)
Pascal , named a great source I have the book " Japanese Naval Vessels Of World War Two". It gives detailed examples of division sized landings its example the Palembang in the Dutch East Indies, Brigade size in the Philippines, and smaller landing forces with its example being the invasion of Wake. Each example has an illustration also of which ships participated. There is also a portion dedicated to the various landing craft the Japanese used, also with ground equipment.

Mike Scholl -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 4:25:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Are you sure that Japanese landed at Lingayen bay? The Japanese (as far as I know from my books) landed 20+ miles north of Lingayen bay on Dec 22 1941. McArthur did think that Japanese would land at Linguayen bay and he put strong force there (21st Philippine division). On Dec 11 1941 one single Japanese motor patrol boat was reconing and that triggered massive armed response from inexperienced Philippines who shown their positions. [:)] Leo "Apollo11" Yes, Apollo, the Japanese Main Landings were made IN Linguayen Gulf. About 9 miles up the Eastern side rather than at the very bottom where Mac expected them---and that was also farther north than the Japanese had planned. Like the 4th Division at UTAH Beach, the Japs "missed" their intended landing ground. And Like the 4th Division, it worked out well for them as they came in on a less well defended area.

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 10:19:56 AM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus Leo, I found out the information about 5) At the end of 1941, japanese had the landing crafts that I have said above: - "Dai Hatsu" => 14,6 meters - 8 knots - 10,5 tons It could carry 10 tons: a small tank, trucks, canons or soldiers. - The "Toku Dai Hatsu" was bigger => 17,6 meters - 9 knots It could carry a medium tank or two 8 tons tanks Thanks for info! BTW, do you know how this smaller craft ("Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai Hatsu") were transported to the scene of amphibious operation? Were they carried on transport ships and then lowered into water at the invasion point? Leo "Apollo11"

Delphinium -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 11:34:19 AM)
quote: BTW, do you know how this smaller craft ("Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai Hatsu") were transported to the scene of amphibious operation? Were they carried on transport ships and then lowered into water at the invasion point? Leo "Apollo11" From Anthony Watts, Jaspanese Warship of WWII The Japanese had the first ship in the world designed for carrying landing craft. The Shinshu Maru. "When completed she could carry 20 landing craft which were launched two at a time through the large doors in her stern. A crane and slings were installed to discharge heavy stores and vehicles from the two large ports in the sides of the vessel." This fits in with previous posts about one specialist vessel in an amphibious operation. The vessel was also called Ryujo Maru, or Fuso Maru to disguise her real identity.

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 12:04:54 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Delphinium quote: BTW, do you know how this smaller craft ("Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai Hatsu") were transported to the scene of amphibious operation? Were they carried on transport ships and then lowered into water at the invasion point? Leo "Apollo11" From Anthony Watts, Jaspanese Warship of WWII The Japanese had the first ship in the world designed for carrying landing craft. The Shinshu Maru. "When completed she could carry 20 landing craft which were launched two at a time through the large doors in her stern. A crane and slings were installed to discharge heavy stores and vehicles from the two large ports in the sides of the vessel." This fits in with previous posts about one specialist vessel in an amphibious operation. The vessel was also called Ryujo Maru, or Fuso Maru to disguise her real identity. Thanks for info - very interesting! Do you, perhaps, know how many of such ships were build (and used) by Japanese in WWII? BTW, anyone knows if they are in WitP OOB? Leo "Apollo11"

TulliusDetritus -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 3:55:21 PM)
Hello again Leo, in the book that I am using to search the information you are looking for they say the "attack transports" (whatever "that" is [:)]) carried the "Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai Hatsu". If you remember the "standard" force for disembarking 20 000 men, you could see there was "1 attack transport". So, apparently those big ships (Delphinium gave to us their name: Shinshu Maru) were carrying ALL the landing crafts. Oh, and the japanese BB's and CV's carried "Hatsu's" instead of lifeboats.

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/11/2004 4:01:38 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus Hello again Leo, in the book that I am using to search the information you are looking for they say the "attack transports" (whatever "that" is [:)]) carried the "Dai Hatsu" and "Toku Dai Hatsu". If you remember the "standard" force for disembarking 20 000 men, you could see there was "1 attack transport". So, apparently those big ships (Delphinium gave to us their name: Shinshu Maru) were carrying ALL the landing crafts. Oh, and the japanese BB's and CV's carried "Hatsu's" instead of lifeboats. Thanks (again) for great info! BTW, it would be interesting to know how fast did Japanese were able to disembark their men (and how fast for heavy equipemnet/weapons and suppy)... Leo "Apollo11"

Tenzan -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/17/2004 10:29:58 PM)
Okay..Finally dug out the book I had: 1)T.1 Type 1944- It's hard to classify these; a sort of cross between an LSD and an APD..They carried four daihatsu LCVP's , or seven Type 2 LVT's, or two Koryu MS's, or six Kaitens All the loadouts went off rollers running down the aft deck. 2)T.101-103 Type 1944- Not much to explain here..essentially a Japanese LST. Carries anywhere from fourteen to four tanks depending on model. Bow gate disembarking 3)SB.101 Type 1944- Type 101 built for the IJ Army..main difference was that it was modified to burn coal. 4)SS.1 Type 1942- Smallish LCM type craft. carries four Type 97 tanks, or one truck and a company of marines. Bow door disembarking 5)Shiushu Maru 1935- The world's FIRST landing ship! Internal aircraft hangar deck, and through-deck carrying twenty daihatsu LCVP's. Disembarkation by stern doors and bow crane 6)Takatsu-Kibitsu Maru Type 1942- Standard Type 1 MA's converted to LSD's for IJ Army use. Carried thirteen daihatsu LCVP's, and twelve toku LCVP's. Stern door and crane disembarking. The LCVP's---------------------------------- Standard 'daihatsu barge' craft a)10-metre Shohatsu SB-C Type Built for the IJ Army-steel construction, motorboat-type hull b)13-metre Chuhatsu Type Steel construction, bow ramp c)15-metre Moku-Daihatsu Type Wooden constructiuon, bow ramp d)14-metre Daihatsu Type (Army designation LB-D) Steel construction, bow ramp e)17-metre Toku Daihatsu Type (Army designation N-L-BD) Steel construction, bow ramp And, that's what they used!

Apollo11 -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/18/2004 10:05:28 AM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Tenzan Okay..Finally dug out the book I had: 1)T.1 Type 1944- It's hard to classify these; a sort of cross between an LSD and an APD..They carried four daihatsu LCVP's , or seven Type 2 LVT's, or two Koryu MS's, or six Kaitens All the loadouts went off rollers running down the aft deck. 2)T.101-103 Type 1944- Not much to explain here..essentially a Japanese LST. Carries anywhere from fourteen to four tanks depending on model. Bow gate disembarking 3)SB.101 Type 1944- Type 101 built for the IJ Army..main difference was that it was modified to burn coal. 4)SS.1 Type 1942- Smallish LCM type craft. carries four Type 97 tanks, or one truck and a company of marines. Bow door disembarking 5)Shiushu Maru 1935- The world's FIRST landing ship! Internal aircraft hangar deck, and through-deck carrying twenty daihatsu LCVP's. Disembarkation by stern doors and bow crane 6)Takatsu-Kibitsu Maru Type 1942- Standard Type 1 MA's converted to LSD's for IJ Army use. Carried thirteen daihatsu LCVP's, and twelve toku LCVP's. Stern door and crane disembarking. The LCVP's---------------------------------- Standard 'daihatsu barge' craft a)10-metre Shohatsu SB-C Type Built for the IJ Army-steel construction, motorboat-type hull b)13-metre Chuhatsu Type Steel construction, bow ramp c)15-metre Moku-Daihatsu Type Wooden constructiuon, bow ramp d)14-metre Daihatsu Type (Army designation LB-D) Steel construction, bow ramp e)17-metre Toku Daihatsu Type (Army designation N-L-BD) Steel construction, bow ramp And, that's what they used! Thanks for info! Leo "Apollo11"

tonel -> RE: How did Japan actually perform amphibious operations in Pacific during WWII? (7/18/2004 10:52:30 AM)
i've just been reading through this post, and it made me think about the daihatsus in the game. starting the main campaign as the japanese, i noticed there are quite a few docked in main ports, but their endurance is so low it makes them rather difficult to move about or use. it would be really good if they could be loaded onto a larger ship (AP/AK) and used for landings..would be fun to have my SNLF units speeding towards their landing points in a small fleet of these [:)] anyone think that being able to load AGs onto cargo ships would be feasable to include in the game?

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