RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (Full Version)

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Nikademus -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:10:27 PM)

keep in mind i havn't tested PT's extensively so i'm speculating a bit based on what others have recorded in addition to what i'm seeing. I think the game engine treats PT's a little too generically (i.e. treats em as warships armed with 2 torps each) so by that facet alone it greatly increases their potential effectivness.

Real life exp showed that theory was alot easier than reality in terms of fighting a succesful action. Against merchant types they could be dangerous (as the MAS boats proved) and "occasionally" in the right circumstances (night - close quarters - low vis) they might threaten a warship, but overall, esp if alot of DD"s are present, the PT's would be at a severe disadvantage. Particularily if warships are present, the PT's are going to be maneuvering wildly while trying to aim. Combine that with a small platform where you'll be aiming largely by intuition and the mk-1 eyeball and one can see why the hit rate was fairly abysmal vs swift warships.

The open sea intercept thing....well unless the waters are calm...those PT's arn't going to be handling well or moving as fast as they can in sheltered waters



Mr.Frag -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:14:59 PM)

quote:

The open sea intercept thing....well unless the waters are calm...those PT's arn't going to be handling well or moving as fast as they can in sheltered waters


[:D]

DD's are not much better off in open ocean hexes then PT boats when it comes to bobbing around. The Pacific ranks up there just under the North Atlantic when it comes to ripping small ships apart. I remember one game that actually disallowed fire from smaller vessels based on sea state. Can't remember the name, but it certainly was quite valid.



Chaplain -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:17:33 PM)

If this were a widespread phenomenon, I would be worried. But as it is - why do people object so strenuously to incredible results? I mean, how many people cold have predicted that the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau would make it through the Channel? Or that the O'Bannon and her mates would turn back the big Jap surface fleet, saving the CVE's? I can just hear it now: "What? Your 3 American carriers defeated that huge IJN task force off Midway? That is totally unrealistic! It could never happen! This war is rigged ... "

Surprises are what RL war is all about. If we eliminate the possibility of them, we reduce the game to math.



Tenzan -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:18:47 PM)

Clerical error [8|]



Nikademus -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:21:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
[:D]

DD's are not much better off in open ocean hexes then PT boats when it comes to bobbing around. The Pacific ranks up there just under the North Atlantic when it comes to ripping small ships apart. I remember one game that actually disallowed fire from smaller vessels based on sea state. Can't remember the name, but it certainly was quite valid.


sorry frag, thats not correct. I'm not saying DD's will be the steady platform vs a BB or large cruiser, but they are certainly far better than a 100-250 ton "boat" *and* and can maintain better sustained speeds in rougher seas. The DD can also ship advanced FC equipment.



Tenzan -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:22:41 PM)

quote:

he open sea intercept thing....well unless the waters are calm...those PT's arn't going to be handling well or moving as fast as they can in sheltered waters


Yep-I agree.

Seems like if they could get PT boats to engage at 5000, or 5000+ like they do in open hexes, it'd be OK...but..at 2000 meters in base hexes, going round after round, they pile up wwaaaaayyyyyyy too many torpedo hits, and somehow miracilously survive?

In open hexes, PT's seem 'OK'-give or take the occasional atypical result, but, in base hexes, they're....well...it's bad. Hey, but..it's v1.0, afterall!


Chaplain-
quote:

Surprises are what RL war is all about. If we eliminate the possibility of them, we reduce the game to math.


That's a good point, but-If you check PT performance in bases vs Open hexes, you'll see what I mean..They aren't destroying fleets 1 time, or 2 times...They're doing it EVERY time. In open sea, it's a lucky hit-like the topic starter..Still haven't seen them do that well..but, in a base, they'll sink everything you've got, just about...talk about reducing it to math-it's about 80-110% difference in open and base effectiveness..A grim certainty you'll take 20 torpedoes :)



Mr.Frag -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:34:34 PM)

quote:

sorry frag, thats not correct. I'm not saying DD's will be the steady platform vs a BB or large cruiser, but they are certainly far better than a 100-250 ton "boat" *and* and can maintain better sustained speeds in rougher seas. The DD can also ship advanced FC equipment.


Not debating it, neither would be firing torpedoes in rough sea states. It's something we neglect that would be nice to be in the code ... bad weather conditions = no torpedoes in surface combat.



Nikademus -> RE: The Best Mid Ocean Intersept EVER! (7/13/2004 7:43:16 PM)

if the sea state is severe enough, yes, no torpedoes....however if the sea state is that bad the PT's will not only be not firing torpedoes....they'll be plodding along just trying to stay afloat.

Getting back to the main point.....PT's in any sea state are strictly low tech as well as fragile....thats why they were operated mostly at night, in enclosed waters.....stealth was their main weapon. They had neither the firepower nor the tech to match up against any kind of mainline warship (such as a DD) On the specific subject of torps....its largely going to be an aim by eye situation and given how the torps were mounted, they usually could only fire "salvos" of 1 torp.

All in all, unless the target is a merchant, or anchored and at close quarters.....PT torp attacks should not have great per-hit chances.



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