Subs not attacking (Full Version)

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daft -> Subs not attacking (7/13/2004 9:36:22 PM)

I'm playing the long campaign as the allies and have now made it to about mid-January 1942. Mt main offensive weapon is the submarine arm, conducting offensive patrols in Empire waters preying on merchants and other Japanese shipping that happens to come by. I've found a good hex south of Osaka were Japanese TF's seems to end their moves and, naturally, the hex is patrolled by a submarine. It frequently (almost on every turn) share the hex with a Japanese transport TF, but the sub never attacks. Now I can understand that the size of the hexes will insure that not all TF's are intercepted, but not one single attack in a full month of warfare?

The sub commander has Leadership 58, Inspiration: 49 and the crew have 57/55 in day and nigh experience respectively. I've tried rotating other subs into the area without any luck.
What am I missing? [8D]



Sonny -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/13/2004 10:24:17 PM)

Does your sub get spotted from the air??
Don't know for sure but that may reduce the liklihood of it attacking.



Nikademus -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/13/2004 10:48:47 PM)

how much SYS does it have? the more SYS you have, the less likely the sub will engage.



kaleun -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 1:02:00 AM)

I've had no problem with my submarines. They attack quite freely, and even hit something every now and then[;)] Are your subs set to computer ops?



byron13 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 1:33:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daft
What am I missing? [8D]


Dear Daft:

Thank you for your question. After considering the matter, it appears to me that what you are missing are Japanese targets. I should have thought this would be obvious. Please feel free to write me with other questions, and I shall be glad to enlighten the world with my wisdom.

Signed,

A. Landers


In all seriousness, I'm not sure. I'm getting creamed by Japanese subs near Australia. Seems everyone hex I land in has a Japanese sub launching while, like you, I have subs that aren't launching often. I'm guessing that the problem is a combination of you being spotted, fairly low leadership ratings, and possibly the fact that your targets have not been spotted from the air. I can't be sure that being spotted or going after targets that have been spotted has an effect, but I would not be surprised. If you're spotted, targets route around you (though within the hex); if the target is spotted, possibly a benefit assuming you have been radioed with course and speed information. All guesses, but I'm seeing the same thing you are. The Japanese seem to have a huge swath of the ocean off of Oz under observation, while I obviously can't see jack off the coast of Japan. I'm wondering if this doesn't affect things.

Related to this, I plotted a convoy from Noumea to Brisbane. Pretty straight shot, one would think. I looked at the course plotted by the computer, and it went straight "west" then turned 90 degrees south, west again for about eight or ten hexes, back north, and then back west. In effect, it looked like it was routing around a square box in the ocean that was about 8 hexes by 8 hexes. I don't recall having received a sub spotting report in the area, but I'm guessing that's what caused the odd plot. Whether it actually sails that plot is another question.

I've seen some rip the auto convoy for plotting through the middle of the Marshalls and Japanese territory. Mine plot the same way, but you'll find that once it reaches the area, it will route around the enemy area and change course drastically. I've got to give credit to the Matrix folks for designing this protection into the game.



Zorfwaddle -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 1:44:06 AM)

Make sure he has torpedos... They can run out....

Regards,



Xargun -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 1:46:28 AM)

From my experience if the sub is spotted TFs nearby will alter their course to go around the hex the sub is in... Also, I believe it lowers the chance of the sub intercepting any targets.. After all most subs are fairly slow underwater - about the same speed of a merchie... So if they run away, a sub can never catch it.. So if you're not getting any hits, move away for a couple turns then come back.. When you come back you will be in stealth mode until detected again.

Xargun

PS Don't forget everytime you attack you announce your presence to everyone.. So if you've bagged a few ships its time to move..



byron13 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 1:52:03 AM)

I'd buy what Xargun's selling.



daft -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 6:28:21 AM)

Thanks for all the replies. The theory that the sub has been spotted sounds like the most plausible, and realistic, one. Thanks again!



Xargun -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 8:21:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daft

Thanks for all the replies. The theory that the sub has been spotted sounds like the most plausible, and realistic, one. Thanks again!


Let us know if the sub comes back to life via moving to a new location...

Xargun



daft -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/14/2004 2:41:48 PM)

Will do. Just got home from work and will start the game up in a couple of hours.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 1:31:21 AM)

Just because a sub is in the same hex as an enemy TF does not guarantee an attack...loads of variables. We had it toned down some, in an earlier build, subs were attacking everything. Really unrealistic. I think contact/attack ratio is pretty bang on now.



byron13 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 2:08:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Just because a sub is in the same hex as an enemy TF does not guarantee an attack...loads of variables. We had it toned down some, in an earlier build, subs were attacking everything. Really unrealistic. I think contact/attack ratio is pretty bang on now.


Sure doesn't feel that way to my transport skippers running the Australian coast. They seemed to get zapped every turn - all the while, I've got probably four subs ending the turn in the same hex with a Japanese fleet without firing. Not complaining about the game; just whining like all good troops should . . .



Charles2222 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 2:21:29 AM)

He might also be running into some pretty savy enemy skippers, or transport convoys with either considerable speed or considerable ASW capabilities. Then again, one other factor may be playing in, what about heavy enemy air patrols? The sub skipper may be smart enough not to stick his head out with such opposition. I've had a couple of Allied subs off the western coast of Saigon, and I didn't know they were there, but their presence was made known after a failed attack, and now my recon and searches are dogging them out. They're also been attacked by an ASW TF, so they haven't dared attack in the last couple of days. Maybe his sub situation is similar to that? Maybe once they've been detected in one spot, if they get a very cool reception then they lose their nerve. Now watch them attack my ASW patrol[:D].



Joel Billings -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 2:36:15 AM)

I'd look at the system damage on the sub. IIRC, Mike added some heavy penalties for subs with even small amounts of system damage but I can't remember if these impacted the chance of attacking or just the success of the attacks and the chance of attack by ASW ships. Of course, this was many months ago during development so it could be different now. I can almost guarantee you that the detection level of both the sub and the sub's target is coming into play when determining the chance of an attack.



Charles2222 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 5:01:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I'd look at the system damage on the sub. IIRC, Mike added some heavy penalties for subs with even small amounts of system damage but I can't remember if these impacted the chance of attacking or just the success of the attacks and the chance of attack by ASW ships. Of course, this was many months ago during development so it could be different now. I can almost guarantee you that the detection level of both the sub and the sub's target is coming into play when determining the chance of an attack.


Would this include ASW air or naval searching planes as far as detection goes?



daft -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 6:41:59 AM)

No sys-damage on any of the subs that I've had in the hex. I do, however, start to think that this is all because of the fact that the skippers that I've tried in the hex are characterized as cautious officers. They're simply lacking enough aggressiveness to press home the attack. If that is the case then I'm facing the same problem the real Silent Service had to face during the early part of the war. I've got Burlingame in the Silversides on his way from CONUS, and I've got just the hex for him to try out once he arrives. [:D]



donkuchi19 -> RE: Subs not attacking (7/15/2004 6:56:12 AM)

I am just playing the Grand Campaign. Since I am learning, I have put subs on Computer control. There are tons of subs lurking around and often in the same hex as task forces. I rarely get an attack message though. Maybe it is a spotting thing but the subs seem to be moving around.



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