Multiple Results and Cheating? (Full Version)

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PBYPilot -> Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/14/2004 8:50:53 PM)

So given that multiple, disimilar results are possible in a PBEM game by setting the option switches in different manners, isn't it possible for the Japanese player (who creates the combat replay) to deliberately create different results and choose the most advantageous one?

PBYPilot
"Slow airplanes and fast women"

[image]http://user.rol.ru/~subchase/WitP%20Banner%20PBYPilot.jpg[/image]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/14/2004 8:54:29 PM)

At the moment, PBEM's are effectively unlocked until the patch is ready. Anyone stooping to that level really needs to find a different hobby though.



freeboy -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/14/2004 8:55:30 PM)

no more money games until the patch[:D]



Xargun -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/14/2004 10:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

At the moment, PBEM's are effectively unlocked until the patch is ready. Anyone stooping to that level really needs to find a different hobby though.


Damn I didn't know that... and here I am letting Rob kick in my teeth in some places... [:D] But I have to agree... anyone cheating should just give it up and play against the AI...

Xargun



freeboy -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/15/2004 12:12:04 AM)

And then they still will cheat



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/15/2004 12:19:29 AM)

quote:

And then they still will cheat


Yep, but you can counter-cheat [:D]

Sad world we live in eh? but nothing has really changed. In the old days, it was the old bump the board to scatter the pieces and put them back 'oops" slightly different.

The humor here is ONLY the Allied player can cheat long term and they are the side that doesn't need to cheat. Japan's ability to cheat is pretty much limited to the first turn of the game. After that, the turn executes before they could hack it and by then it is too late. [:D]



kaleun -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/15/2004 12:40:04 AM)

So let me ask a question:
The allied side, has to reset the reality settings with every turn that he plays as allied?
Meaning to reset it to whatever was set at the beggining of the game with that particular oponent?
If so then this is a pain in the A$$.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/15/2004 1:12:09 AM)

it is a temp workaround until the patch.



PBYPilot -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/15/2004 10:17:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Yep, but you can counter-cheat [:D]


I don't believe so. Any resetting (accidental or otherwise) of the option switchs done by the Allied player may affect the outcome of the combat replay, but can't affect the starting situation of the accompanying orders file.


quote:

The humor here is ONLY the Allied player can cheat long term and they are the side that doesn't need to cheat. Japan's ability to cheat is pretty much limited to the first turn of the game. After that, the turn executes before they could hack it and by then it is too late. [:D]


That's not how I understand it Mr. Frag. If re-setting the option keys changes the outcome then can't the Japanese player change them, watch the movie, save the file, change them again, watch a different movie, decide which outcome he likes best and use that choice to begin his next orders phase. That locks in the best results for the Japanese player.

From my understanding, it's only the Japanese player that can use this to permanantly and repeatedly alter the outcome of the game.

PBYPilot

[image]http://user.rol.ru/~subchase/WitP%20Banner%20PBYPilot.jpg[/image]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 12:13:58 AM)

quote:

From my understanding, it's only the Japanese player that can use this to permanantly and repeatedly alter the outcome of the game.


Nope, reloading and changing options has no effect for Japan ... It will only affect whether the replay *looks* right and matches up with what really happened ... and of course this is all mute because the reality is that these options are locked and unchangable. You just happen to be dealing with a bug right now that lets them come unglued. It's already fixed, just not in what you guys are running.



kaleun -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 12:19:24 AM)

So even if the replay looks different, it could easily be attributable to FOW.
(Now that explains why I can't find those subtenders from Manila. I am afraid they must have gone down and I didn't notice. Hmmm....)



Damien Thorn -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 12:21:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

From my understanding, it's only the Japanese player that can use this to permanantly and repeatedly alter the outcome of the game.


Nope, reloading and changing options has no effect for Japan ... It will only affect whether the replay *looks* right and matches up with what really happened ... and of course this is all mute because the reality is that these options are locked and unchangable. You just happen to be dealing with a bug right now that lets them come unglued. It's already fixed, just not in what you guys are running.


I think PBY is right, at least if WitP is the same as UV. The random seeds are set during the Allied player's turn and then the results are generated during the Japanese player's turn. This would prevent both players from cheating IF the settings were locked. As it is, the different settings allow the Jaoanese player to use those seeded random numbers differently and thus alter the outcome. Whatever outcome he finally chooses is passed onto the Allied player with the next turn. No matter what settings the allied player uses when he views the replay hs is only affecting the replay. When he opens up the real turn it will be just as it was when the Japanese player sent it.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 12:43:43 AM)

quote:

When he opens up the real turn it will be just as it was when the Japanese player sent it.


Correct, but by screwing with the unlocked options, things can be messed with that normally can not be touched which cancels out the locked seed that Japan has and since the turn executes immediately on japan loading, they can't fix it.

Like I said, all mute now.



Damien Thorn -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 1:12:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

When he opens up the real turn it will be just as it was when the Japanese player sent it.


Correct, but by screwing with the unlocked options, things can be messed with that normally can not be touched which cancels out the locked seed that Japan has and since the turn executes immediately on japan loading, they can't fix it.


Is that why they changed it from UV so that the turn runs right away instead of giving you a box to click OK? I preferred the box myself.

quote:



Like I said, all mute now.


I think you meen "moot".



Mr.Frag -> RE: Multiple Results and Cheating? (7/16/2004 2:06:20 AM)

quote:

I think you meen "moot".


Nope, I meant mute ... it's fixed, shadda up about it [:D]



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