Core forces (Full Version)

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Bradock78436 -> Core forces (1/10/2002 6:06:00 AM)

WHat's the suggested core force? I started the 'long road to victory' campaign. I chose a ranger company, two rifle company, engineer company and some artillery. Only had 1800 points. Bought tanks for support. Was this a wise descision? I got to the air strip with infantry, my tanks were either destroyed or immobilized by massive air strikes. And when I was finally making progress the Panzer 3's came.. I ended up with two VP's, a draw. Retreat after that went well.



Gallo Rojo -> (1/10/2002 10:51:00 AM)

Usually I buy: 1- Tank Co
1- Motor Rifle Co (if I don't have enought point as to I buy a Co buy Platoons in equal quantity)
Note: be sure to have some heavy MG in your infantry force. Recon forces: an infantry recon plt + jeeps or some fast vehicle + armored cars a couple of 50mm mortars (you can upgrade them to 81mm or bigger during the campaing)



Bradock78436 -> (1/10/2002 11:09:00 AM)

What kind of tank company? Medium tanks? Tank destroyers?



skukko -> (1/10/2002 12:18:00 PM)

Buy medium tank company, delete last platoon of it and buy platoon of tankdestroyers Plain battlegroup works fine if you buy mechanized infantry to support it. Buy also one engineer platoon. (<-at least some of your guys then have engineer capability) Light mortar -section and some recons. Also FO would be important to get into core. I usually buy motorised infantry company and company of tanks. This Tank CO I then cut to consist only 6 tanks. Its cheap core and capable for all campaigns in all fronts. But its my opinion mosh



Bradock78436 -> (1/10/2002 1:14:00 PM)

Sounds like a lot for 1800.



skukko -> (1/10/2002 2:41:00 PM)

So many camps to play... Ok, I did buy core, saved and will play this. I have wanted and started to play it before but never couldn't go more than first battle due to updates and other work. Here is what I did buy with all preferences On and as default is: Hq 7 M4A3 Shermans Mech infantry Co, (rarity ate my infantry mortars) I did cut that tankdestroyer -halfie out and did purchase 2 Wolverines. Forward observer and last something fun to test; 2 M6 37 GMC AT-trucks. These I will update to something if they are not good. Shermans and Wolvies will have update later, sherman to one with 17pounder (or alike) in -44 and Wolvies to Jacksons when they are available ( -44? ). Infantry trackers will have slight updates if I do have spearpoints. Infantry will stay as is to M-9 bazooka time, ( -43? ) Artillery I'll take from support-points as engineers if needed. To first battle I didn't buy infantry, but two AA-trackers, section of 105-howitzers with trucks and ammotrucks to feed them my small arms if needed. so by now, Africa calls. mosh



Bradock78436 -> (1/10/2002 2:52:00 PM)

Well, my setup is off, guess I should restart. Mission three counter attack. 6731 to 3331 (something like that) me. Draw.. I had two shermans and four wolverines. Those tanks must have took down 8-10 German tanks befor reinforcments came. Another 5 or 6 panzers and stugs!! Wolv took one with it before it was knocked out. Ambushed the other tanks at VP's, broke the German force morale. One VP was to far away. Ranger special forces captured the vp to their rear. Had both hills and the one closed to my deploy. After fighting off their spec ops. The one on the road in the middle of the mountains was where I was heading. One more turn and I could have gotten there. Do you think Spec ops are good to have in core force? 30% of them don't make it in infiltration so your constantly replacing them.



Bradock78436 -> (1/10/2002 4:00:00 PM)

Tactics primer advised against motor infantry.. Would it be better to go with mechanized? Armor, power and mobility.. Or is that to expensive? Mobility and price are more important with inf.. But is one company of infantry enough? Only eight tanks.. I saw the germans with atleast a dozen tanks, plus mechanized infrantry adn a little art. Don't see how even the AI can afford all that. Also, is off board art and air support given? or do we have to buy it?



bigtroutz -> (1/10/2002 6:40:00 PM)

edited to give exact composition w/ ver 7
hi again my core force at 1800 pts: 4 wolverines
2 m3a1 stuart light tanks use scouts and MGs from rifle co to mount on above armor or on SPAA
4 81mm mortar(elite)
2 60mm sp jeep mortar
1 forward observer (decreases lag time on arty)
2 rifle companies w/ hmg option on one (delete included 60mm mortars) use w/or w/o AT platoon
8 gmc CCKW medium trucks END or CORE use medium trucks or halftracks above to upgrade to halftracks or tanks after battle SUPPORT PURCHASE
1 platoon engineers
1 155mm offbd arty batry
1 105mm " " "
12 gmc CCKW medium trucks
2 m15 spaa or more (buy em last) these are good as light tank destroyers as well as infnatry support and AA
1 jeep 60mm mortar END of SUPPORT purchase
replace above heavy arty with tanks if you prefer
leftovers go into more arty (81mm mortar) or tank sections, or more engineers, depending upgrade infantry to airborne or rangers after the 1st battle, look for "assault" troops, those suxers rock, buy em if you got em, plus they mount on heavy tanks (7 men per squad)
upgrade snipers/scouts to tanks/TD then use "support" to buy em from then on (2 man scouts = only 10 pts)
upgrade trucks to halftracks (look for those with 2-3 MG mounted eg m3a1) or tanks save as much "support" purchase for airstrikes or heavy arty as possible i try to replace minor arty or MG units with rockets when they come available, rockets are devastating but will NOT fit on any amphib unit that i have found, so wait till after sicily (not that they are available till after then, as i recall. 4 rocket units = heavy casualties, stalled offensives [ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: bigtroutz ]



Gallo Rojo -> (1/10/2002 9:33:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bradock78436:
What kind of tank company? Medium tanks? Tank destroyers?
Medium tanks. Shermans. And armored cars are a good idea since you can upgrade them to tanks during the campaing (it will be a looong campaing) and don't forget the Forward Obs as Sukko said ... I was forgeted to said you about this.



lnp4668 -> (1/10/2002 10:07:00 PM)

In the long road to victory, I used entirely rangers. Not realistic, but when those rangers got to elite level, they do roll over everything.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 3:07:00 AM)

If you can keep those rangers alive to that level. If you lose a good piece of a squad, do they get replaced? And do the replacements hurt their experience?



lnp4668 -> (1/11/2002 3:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bradock78436:
If you can keep those rangers alive to that level. If you lose a good piece of a squad, do they get replaced? And do the replacements hurt their experience?
For infantries, they replenish automatically between battle without anly loss in experience if the squad do not get destroy. The trick is to withdraw the squad if they reduce to less than 50% in strength. So all mine are elite at the end, and I have tons of points left over. I only lost a few when the AI calls on a Katyusha bombardment over their own troop, wiping out 2 of my squads also.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 4:09:00 AM)

I tried it with Rangers, and quite a few tanks.. Close range one of my squads took eight casualties and dispearsed.. US troops come all the way across the Atlantic to assist the French.. And they get shot at for their troubles!! At the end of this game... France? No, no.. New America.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 4:14:00 AM)

Maybe I'm not using them correctly.. I had two company's, trucks, 5 shermans, 3 TD's and two stuarts. Plus artillery. They infiltrated to the back of the air field.. Where they ran into troops and lost.. Bazooka's and Mg's are moving in from the front with the engineer platoon. Bought trucks for all the infantry, maybe I'm just not using them correctly. What units did you use exactly and how did you use them? Now when I only used one comp against the german counter attack. Mission 3, they worked well.. Captured their rear VP location and destroyed their HQ in the process.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 4:16:00 AM)

Oh, and couldn't find armored cars, closest thing I saw was a jeep. You mean the GMC's?



lnp4668 -> (1/11/2002 4:24:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bradock78436:
Maybe I'm not using them correctly.. I had two company's, trucks, 5 shermans, 3 TD's and two stuarts. Plus artillery. They infiltrated to the back of the air field.. Where they ran into troops and lost.. Bazooka's and Mg's are moving in from the front with the engineer platoon. Bought trucks for all the infantry, maybe I'm just not using them correctly. What units did you use exactly and how did you use them? Now when I only used one comp against the german counter attack. Mission 3, they worked well.. Captured their rear VP location and destroyed their HQ in the process.
I use the ranger as regular infantry back up with artillery. Artillery to suprress the enemy, then move the rangers in for the kill. However, this was before the soup up MG, so it may not work now.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 6:41:00 AM)

Wolves are always unavailable when I choose my core force. Also, any suggested approaches on the airfield? I'm trying to beat it with all victory locations. But those Air strikes knocked out a lot of my infantry.



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 12:12:00 PM)

quote:

Wolves are always unavailable when I choose my core force. Also, any suggested approaches on the airfield? I'm trying to beat it with all victory locations. But those Air strikes knocked out a lot of my infantry
did you know that you can turn OFF rarity in preferences? there are alot of other settings in their that are REAL usefull as well, check em out. Buy a few M15 SPAA units to shoot those planes down, they are good light tank and infantry killers too. dont bunch your units in a east/west line along that paved road i use a 3 prong attack on that airfield:
1) from nw thru light woods & along north side of paved road to north of runway - the planes always seem to attack along this paved road, when i see em. 2) from due west thru light woods then along south side of runway & bldgs there 3) from sw up dirt road toward hangars then to ridge to east of reservoir



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 12:25:00 PM)

avoid casualties by bombarding suspect locations where you plan to move to next turn, eg buildings, groves of trees, etc. and certainly by bombarding ANY and ALL units you can see. use your FO to hit em before their turn to fire. use those scouts and snipers to spot the enemy, pay attention to that little asterisk in the bottom left corner of the screen where it says "Ready" - it means that unit is under observation by the enemy - be careful dood, lol



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 12:37:00 PM)

Thanks for the tactics.. I'm right now on the mission in sicily where you attack the town.. Now town fighting is especially bad, you can't see anything until you're right up on it.. So i'm just rushign it with mass infantry.. Now with the PZ4's, I'm using mostly M10 Wolverines to kill them, but what's the armor tactic? I know to target the enemy tank and then wait a turn for more accuracy. Anything else?



skukko -> (1/11/2002 1:32:00 PM)

With US TDs you can shoot asap. They usually kill or damage target with first shot, then pull out of sight and in next turn use recon or infantry to spot target again for TD. With two Wolvies and this tactic you can succesfully kill whole company of Panzers. mosh



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 2:00:00 PM)

quote:

I'm using mostly M10 Wolverines to kill them, but what's the armor tactic? I know to target the enemy tank and then wait a turn for more accuracy. Anything else?
strategy 1):
move tank-destroyers to overlook positions, unload sniper/scout, hopefully w/o getting fired on, by keeping em 'back'. Move ONE hex at a time and watch for "*" and examine units field of view after each move to find a good overlook.
then move a tank or empty truck, or some low value mech-bait into the 'firezone'. when it gets fired at, you can use the previously moved TDs to take out the enemy. it seems like the overlooking tanks will get higher prob of hit cause they were 'there' already. strategy 2)
arty the hell outta them so you can move right up to em and finish em off while they're "routed or retreating". hit prob on these type of units are REAL high. strategy 3)
some tanks are too well armored to kill at long range when firing at their front, eg Tiger. fire off some smoke rounds at the hexes in front of the unit so it cant see, then maneuver TDs thru woods, etc to get a close flank or rear shot. if i recall correctly, for USA only medium or better tanks have smoke rounds, so you may have to use 60mm mortars for smoke (make sure you have a FO to get a .1 or .2 delay on arty, or you will lose your mechs). use several TDs (swarm it) approaching from as many dirs as possible, firing ONLY one time from each unit in turn, to minimize the INCREASE in the probability of enemy tank's return fire hit, and also making an effort to hit the flank or rear with each unit. eventually, the target will cease its return fire. if you can move any units at that point, do so to get a killing shot position, or move a bazooka unit in to kill it. a good point of mech (trucks, halftracks, SPAA, etc is to have enuf mobility to do this.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 2:35:00 PM)

Yeah, I've seen that done.. Most lucky but three of my TD's slaughtered hoards of panzers. Nice 3inch at guns. As far as trucks, you won't have enough infantry, when it comes down to cities and the airfield you need a lot, you can't send tanks in their safely.. The airfield I hated most of all. Bunkers facing eachother, some AT guns, all mg's. Pretty fair death trap, and those air strikes didn't help either.. What are the consequences for getting draws or retreating if you lose to much.



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 2:54:00 PM)

the trick with bunkers/caves/mg-nests etc is to find em early, then move up mech-/infantry, esp engineers or rangers from their flank or rear and blow em away w/assault. smoke helps also if they have excellent field of fire & overlooking units. snipers and scouts are real important for spotting. that core force i posted has plenty of infantry (2 companies), and starting with 2nd battle, can be rangers, airborne, and/or engineer elite units - use the upgrades on infantry early and they will have hi experience levels more quickly upgrade trucks to halftracks gives em mobility, firepower, generalized force multiplication. having lotsa infantry wont do much good if it cant move to the fight. when a unit stumbles into a fight, move other units into overlooking positions and fire THEM 1st, finishing off the unit you stumbled into with the unit which found it AFTER its surpressed, if you need to.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 3:45:00 PM)

Don't caves have to be destroyed from the front? I mostly saw those fighting the japs. Their bunkers are a real pain, you can't scare them out, you have to destroy it... And I see your point.. I just have a bad habit of rushing units forward to fast to kill an enemy.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 4:05:00 PM)

Also, when you cross the airfield... Will tanks and trucks detect mines before you enter the hex or should you unload your roops and walk it?



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 4:17:00 PM)

QUOTE] Don't caves have to be destroyed from the front? I mostly saw those fighting the japs. Their bunkers are a real pain, you can't scare them out, you have to destroy it... And I see your point.. I just have a bad habit of rushing units forward to fast to kill an enemy. [/QUOTE] nope, absolutely not, altho the angle of attack affects probability of hit, bunkers, caves, etc can be assaulted from any direction. unless the fortification is routed, your unit will receive counter-fire if in the front. so i NEVER attack from the front, cuz after a failed assault, you are a sitting duck, if they rally. i rush units forward fast too, but circumspectly. it seems my biggest cause of casualties is stumbling into a unspotted unit or minefield. just use supporting units to respond in this situation or ELSE. pop some smoke with units next to the cave to facilitate safe movement with other units,
deliver a smoke bombardment to cover engineers clearing a minefield. a unit in bad trouble can save its bacon with righteous smoke.



bigtroutz -> (1/11/2002 4:31:00 PM)

quote:

Will tanks and trucks detect mines before you enter the hex or should you unload your roops and walk it?
yep, mechs will detect mines by EXPLODING
hehe, seriously, i think only engineers will detect minefields by entering a mined hex. HOWEVER, an artillery hit in a hex with mines will often reveal em, especially big stuff [hint hint]. artillery hits on a hex supposedly lowers the numbers of mines. there was a thread a few months back describing the technique of using an intense mortar barrage to remove mines. dunno how effective it is, tho, cuz my mortars are usually pretty busy wiping infantry butt.



Bradock78436 -> (1/11/2002 4:43:00 PM)

So your best tip for attacking from the west is prayer?



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