Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (Full Version)

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Tanaka -> Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 5:38:47 AM)

When you press this button the troops are still loaded so what's the point? As it is now to get the right load we have to save and start over....save and start over.

Why doensnt the cancel load troops button do just that? Put the troops immediately back so we can try different task force settings.

Oh my gosh it would save so much time, effort, and frustration.



2Stepper -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 5:52:07 AM)

Its an easy function to do actually. You cancel the load... UNLOAD, and you're good to go. They're right back where they were. There's a lot of time abstractions in the load/unload function. So you can't just migrate 1000 men on and off a ship in the periods of time allotted. Suffice to say IMHO it works... Others may disagree.



rogueusmc -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 5:53:55 AM)

You use this function also to load a partial unit then put supply on the same ship if you are short of ships....had to do that a few times.



2Stepper -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 5:55:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

You use this function also to load a partial unit then put supply on the same ship if you are short of ships....had to do that a few times.


Was going to add too that theres LOTS of tactical and/or strategic reasons you would want it available at least. [8D]



ian77 -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:05:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

When you press this button the troops are still loaded so what's the point? As it is now to get the right load we have to save and start over....save and start over.

Why doensnt the cancel load troops button do just that? Put the troops immediately back so we can try different task force settings.

Oh my gosh it would save so much time, effort, and frustration.


I think he is after an "undo" button, which would be nice.



Tanaka -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:21:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ian77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

When you press this button the troops are still loaded so what's the point? As it is now to get the right load we have to save and start over....save and start over.

Why doensnt the cancel load troops button do just that? Put the troops immediately back so we can try different task force settings.

Oh my gosh it would save so much time, effort, and frustration.


I think he is after an "undo" button, which would be nice.



yup exactly [:)]



Moquia -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 3:05:48 PM)

TF 227 troops unloading over beach at Miri, 31,57


Japanese ground losses:
5430 casualties reported


UNDO UNDO UNDO!!! [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif][8D]



PeteG662 -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 3:11:17 PM)

OOPS! You got hosed!



Mr.Frag -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 3:11:54 PM)

Undo is only the wish list, but it is actually very complicated to program because the state is not tracked. Once you click load, it instantly uses up the days allotment to load. Because of this, the undo would need to be able to reverse this action.

Don't hold your breath on this one ... as I always say, save before loading and transfering aircraft so you have your own undo.



tiredoftryingnames -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 3:52:41 PM)

Life needs an undo button.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 3:58:40 PM)

quote:

Life needs an undo button.


Already done ... Death [:D]



tiredoftryingnames -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 4:11:46 PM)

Death isn't an undo. That's ctrl alt del



infinitejest -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 5:00:20 PM)

I think what's being asked for here really isn't a "global" undo that'll cancel the last input the player entered in his turn. Instead what's being asked for is two things: 1) To have a "stop loading troops" button that works just like the current "cancel loading troops" to allow you to load partial units and then put to sea. 2) To have a cancel load troops button that actually reverts you back to where you were before the load.

The player has a means of undoing nearly every other orders issued in the current turn in WitP. There's no way to undo loading except by save/reload which is really kind of a kludgy way to do it, though admittedly it does work.

I won't hold my breath and there's other things I'd rather see added in the UI -- like more hotkeys -- but the load troops issue is singularly annoying.



FirstPappy -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:17:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

Death isn't an undo. That's ctrl alt del


Only if you believe in reincarnation!



vonmoltke -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:19:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Once you click load, it instantly uses up the days allotment to load. Because of this, the undo would need to be able to reverse this action.

Why does load troops and load only troops behave like this, but load supplies and load fuel does not?



Mr.Frag -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:23:56 PM)

quote:

Why does load troops and load only troops behave like this, but load supplies and load fuel does not?


So you can get an idea of what it will look like up front instead of getting a rude surprise the next turn.

With supplies and fuel, it's pretty obvious ... with troops, it is not.



2Stepper -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 6:26:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

Death isn't an undo. That's ctrl alt del


Thought that was ALT-F4? ACK! Killed my post before posting... [:D]

EDIT: Seriously though, I like the way the various features are setup. They just "work" to me. Frag makes a good point about saving before you undertake a major operation. Only makes sense if you ask me. So while an "undo" might seem a good idea, it won't really affect me one way or the other if one gets dropped in. [8D]



Arnir -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 8:31:24 PM)

My concern with loading troops is that it does seem overly complicated for the player. I want to put the 23423432nd division on my AP. Why is it now being loaded on all the APs and part of it being left at home? One of the APs can carry it all according to the stats.

So, you load units one ship at a time and then put them into the task force, I assume. Loading troops onto a transport shouldn't be as iffy as trying to find the enemy carrier fleet. Sometimes you just NEED a button to reverse the very questionable load the AI just did.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 8:44:27 PM)

The game will attempt to load based on what YOU provided.

In the old days, the game would steal ships to make up for your lack of counting skills. This caused problems and frustrations since there is no undo.

We got that auto-add disabled so you are now completely in control.

In the old days, the game would start loading ship by ship until it was all loaded and ships were running empty while others were overflowing.

We got that changed where the load is spread out equally over all the ships you include so no one ship is a torpedo gold mine.

Now, once you understand these and understand that ships will really attempt to load troops in a manner that that can unload in 1 turn (even though you can pack them in like sardines and have them unloading for 5+ turns if you want) you'll start to understand why it is the way it is.

Takes a bit to learn, but once you get it, you'll never forget it [;)]



Arnir -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 8:51:54 PM)

I can see how different loading techniques would be preferable for different destinations. In my case, I simply was sending part of a division to a rear area computer controlled base. Kind of handing off the troops to the new command, so to speak. I was thinking of shipping efficiency, not storm the beach efficiency.

I will have to get more experience before I see how I've been given complete control of the loading.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 9:03:25 PM)

If you want a sardine load, best way is to load a single unit.

Pick a number of same sized ships that exceed the unit size numbers by about 10% and you should get them sitting in the masts. The drawback is that with less ships loading, they spend longer loading and unloading at the ports. A sardine load at a small port will be there a LONG time.



donkuchi19 -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 9:08:48 PM)

I think death is more like a CTD.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/16/2004 9:12:35 PM)

quote:

We got that auto-add disabled so you are now completely in control.

In the old days, the game would start loading ship by ship until it was all loaded and ships were running empty while others were overflowing.

We got that changed where the load is spread out equally over all the ships you include so no one ship is a torpedo gold mine.




Huh. That makes sense.



infinitejest -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/17/2004 2:22:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

With supplies and fuel, it's pretty obvious ... with troops, it is not.


And its non-obviousness is why it would be useful to be able to cancel the load you did, reorganize your task force, and then reload without having to save/reload the turn.



tiredoftryingnames -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/17/2004 4:28:35 AM)

The way I handle loading troops is to use one ship type for each unit. I look at the unit screen and it lists the cost in AK, AP and LST. I look at the port where I'm forming the TF to see what is available. If APs are available I pick them, if not I pick AKs and always round up. How much I round up depends on how spread out I want the unit depending on threat levels where they are going. I then use load only troops. With load only troops and all of the ship type I picked having a total capacity over the load cost listed on the unit screen I never have problems. If you mix ships and do a regular load that adds supplies you might have parts left behind. This works for more than one unit as long as the total cost of the units doesn't exceed the TF capacity. Supplies for an invasion I put in a seperate TF and either command the two seperate or combine them at sea once they are loaded.



Cmdrcain -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/17/2004 9:18:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

Death isn't an undo. That's ctrl alt del



Nope, thats just a re-boot... Re-Incranation, nope Death is more like an powersurge taking your PC's MoBo and HD out no reboot, no re-incarnation, "its dead, Jim"

[:D][:D][:D]



Cmdrcain -> RE: Why is there even a cancel load troops button??? (7/17/2004 9:30:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arnir

My concern with loading troops is that it does seem overly complicated for the player. I want to put the 23423432nd division on my AP. Why is it now being loaded on all the APs and part of it being left at home? One of the APs can carry it all according to the stats.

So, you load units one ship at a time and then put them into the task force, I assume. Loading troops onto a transport shouldn't be as iffy as trying to find the enemy carrier fleet. Sometimes you just NEED a button to reverse the very questionable load the AI just did.



Actually, look at it from a gameplay view:

You have a TF, you order IT to Load a troop unit, It will thereby load that one unit on ALL the ships in the TF then unless hit load only troops , supplies and fuel fills out empty spaces..

Looking at it that way it makes sense, you put all on one ship, you put all eggs in one basket, lose the ship you lose all.

But if say one units loaded on a tf of 6 Ap/AK's then its spread out
and if a sub or plane attk sinks some, you STILL have the Unit through with some lose... but you still have the Unit which can build back up after landed with reinfs.

So I've figured out its best to form 2-3 ship TF's load EACH with
ONE Unit, spread out over them, then after I have loaded troops, i re-form ALL (If their all going to same place ) into ONE Task force.

What is more, if sunk, with other ships in TF, there can be some rescued, I had it happen, an Ap sunk and a message that survivors were being rescued by remainder of the TF.

I've pretty much figured for most units unless overly large
one AP and 2 AK's in a TF for each unit, load troops onto them then reform the 2-4 small Tf into one before sending out works well and
I don't lose a whole unit if One ship is sunk



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