Durability of the G4M Betty

Durability of the G4M Betty (Full Version)

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Moquia -> Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 7:54:34 PM)
Well, im about to enter March in my campaign against the japanese AI. One thing I have noticed is the low lossrate of the Bettys and Nells against heavy AA. After a look in the database I can see the Bettys have a higher durability than the A-20B among others. A plane I think was considered rugged. So is the 'one-shot lighter' a historical myth or is this about right. What do the grognards think?

gunnergoz -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 8:18:29 PM)
IIRC, the Betty's got their nickname as "flying cigars" after US fighters found out how vulnerable their unsealed fuel tanks were to incendiary bullets. AA shrapnel just punches holes in a plane but doesn't usually start fires. They were penty sturdy enough to handle a few flak holes. It was their vulnerability to tracers that did them in.

Nikademus -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 8:29:57 PM)
G4M's are not nearly as vulneable as some histories paint. I first learned this reading up on interviews with Joe Foss and it was later confirmed from the writings of Lundstrom and Frank. Are they still "vulnerable" in comparison to say, a B-25? absolutely. Without self sealing fuel tanks in particular your much more likely to see a G4M brew up and go down vs the latter. But unless its unusual circumstances (prior to 43 at least) your not going to see say 15 go down in one battle vs a moderate sized TF. They are after all, big twin engine units and airplanes in general dont go down nearly as much as gamers often expect when comparing force levels. One area where the DUR factor really comes out is in damages. I just finished "defending" Lunga in an AI game. No fighter cover (thank god) but AA was fairly intense (for transports). Lost only 6 G4M's and i seemed to be doing ok but man, next turn when i checked the status of my units to consider pressing the attack.....3/4 of my surviving G4M's were unservicable so i wasn't able to continue the attack.

Moquia -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 8:58:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus One area where the DUR factor really comes out is in damages. I just finished "defending" Lunga in an AI game. No fighter cover (thank god) but AA was fairly intense (for transports). Lost only 6 G4M's and i seemed to be doing ok but man, next turn when i checked the status of my units to consider pressing the attack.....3/4 of my surviving G4M's were unservicable so i wasn't able to continue the attack. I had this one attack with Bettys and Nells against a task force with two CVs and plenty of escort. All seemed to get damaged by cap or flak, but later I could see only 1 Betty was lost to flak. But as you mentioned many was problaly unable to attack the next day (did not wait around to see [:)]).

kev_uk -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 9:41:08 PM)
The Betty was designed as a long range, fast moving bomber. I think its range outdid a B-17, but the trade off for the range was durability. It had a light airframe with no armour which made it vunerable to AAA and enemy fighters, plus the fact that they had poor self-sealing fuel tanks which made them catch fire all too easily. I think it was called 'Flying Cigar' due to its shape, 'Flying Cigarette lighter' by the Japs and 'Flying Zippo' by Allies. The same design philosophy as the Zero, light, maneuverable airframe (although it was twin-engined), which just didnt stand up to heavy firepower later in the war. There was a severe lack of R&D in the Japanese camp which was another nail in their coffin.

TheElf -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 9:42:03 PM)
Don't forget the early war Betty and Nell pilots were still the cream of the pre-war crop. Very selective training etc. They also didn't shy away from a quality spread whereby each community: Fighter, Bomber, Dive-bomber, scout got an equal share of the talent. A highly skilled/experienced Bomber crew will be more likely to nurse that damaged airplane home after it is chewed up. regards

TheElf -> RE: Durability of the G4M Betty (7/17/2004 9:43:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gunnergoz IIRC, the Betty's got their nickname as "flying cigars" after US fighters found out how vulnerable their unsealed fuel tanks were to incendiary bullets. Their fuselage was also cigar shaped. When allied pilots found that they burned well too... that just sealed the deal[;)]

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