RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (Full Version)

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brisd -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 12:52:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Keep in mind the US player will see you coming in plenty of time. I think even a two base objective to be marginal, and the Allied player can also shift forces to the more important cities.

The assault values may be lower than a multi-IJA div attack, however there are two more factors to consider.

1) super long transit time will increase fatigue of the attackers and lack of preperation will cause much disablement

2) CD units waiting for the attacker.

Still waiting for a taker...... I'll be Allied [:D]


Item #2 is a real show-stopper. Those CD units guarding the West coast are impressive.



Jim D Burns -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 1:02:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Keep in mind the US player will see you coming in plenty of time. I think even a two base objective to be marginal, and the Allied player can also shift forces to the more important cities.

The assault values may be lower than a multi-IJA div attack, however there are two more factors to consider.

1) super long transit time will increase fatigue of the attackers and lack of preperation will cause much disablement

2) CD units waiting for the attacker.

Still waiting for a taker...... I'll be Allied [:D]



Allied search aircraft hasn’t impressed me in the early period of the war; I'm not so sure there'd be time to march reinforcing units in once you finally figured out which bases they were headed for.

I also assumed there'd be no real extra fatigue (at least no more than an average invasion move) given the first turn warp move, but this assumes none is acquired on this warp move. Not having played as Japan yet, I guess this is a big assumption on my part.

One last thing I notice after looking over the map, it's only 9 days march to the U.S. base inland from S.F. If Japan put all her eggs in one basket at S.F. and could take that inland base, supply would be no problem at all.

Jim



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 1:06:43 AM)

1st turn movement will not come even close to the coast. you gotta steam there (and back)



Cap Mandrake -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 1:23:56 AM)

Come to papa [;)]

Whidby Island, WA

[image]http://www.cdsg.org/gunpics/Worth2.gif[/image]

Puget Sound defences

[image]http://www.cdsg.org/gunpics/caseyn2.gif[/image]


http://www.cdsg.org/gunpics/gunsx.htm



Bradley7735 -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 1:31:04 AM)

in reply to Jim B

bases that produce supply each round (not resources, but straight supply) like US, Karachi, etc, do not produce supply for the enemy. Only for the national owner of the base. So, japan capturing the US base will not get the 15k supply each turn. They would still need to ship it all the way across the pacific.

bc



Platoonist -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 3:34:26 AM)

Lovely pictures Cap Mandrake. Those guns are in my neck of the woods. Alas, most of the cannon have been long removed from the barbettes. Fort Stevens at the mouth of the Columbia is in much the same state.



UncleBuck -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 7:50:12 PM)

I hope that they have been removed for restoration right? they woudln't destroy the guns woudl they? I know at Fort Rosecrans here in San Diego, they have some guns but if you go climbing around the Point you will see the defensive postions that have been sealed up. By 1943 any attack on San Diego would have been Suicide. The only beaches taht are assaultable happen to border on Camp Pendelton, or were In direct line of Camp Elliot. If you tried to enter the Harbor of San Diego you woudl have been blown out of the water, very narrow channel and mined as well as covered with guns. I want to get up to SF and see teh Presido and the bay forts as well.

UB



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 7:58:15 PM)

i really need to get out there and visit the forts.....lived here 12 years now and still havn't gotten around to it.

PS....i've started a new SCN 15 with the express purpose of "taking the West coast". (playing head to head)

I'll be posting the results in an AAR shortly. Needless to say so far......to pull this "caper" off, i've had to cancel all other operations in order to use the big divisions available to the Japanese to do this. (and that alone kills this project in my eyes from a practical standpoint)

ah well......Pearl Harbor went real well at least.... [:D]



UncleBuck -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 9:59:53 PM)

I am trying to decide if I want to restart my current Scen 15 game. I have made some horrendous mistakes not being used to this game. But on the other hand, it does add to the Historic feel that I was acting like a handless Muppet in most theaters. I guess I really should fight it out. But I would like to play again as a competent commander [:'(]

Then again maybe I will play this one out and just restart when the patch comes out...



DrewMatrix -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:14:33 PM)

quote:

By 1943 any attack on San Diego would have been Suicide. . . . I want to get up to SF and see teh Presido and the bay forts as well.


There are (or were) lots more forts than just Dan Diego harbor, SF bay etc. Actually were I to plan an assault I would not sail in through the Golden Gate. Better to land on the west (ocean) coast of Marin (the northern peninsula) or San Francisco bay.

When I was a kid, living in Marin there were all these old gun emplacements along the cliffs and covering the beaches going _many_ miles north of SF (20 + miles). The guns were gone but the forts were fun to climb around in.

There was a guy who had been there during the war. He told us (I have no way to know if this was true. "Old men remember, and with advantages . .") his duty throughout the war was to march up and down the beach once a day, then go back to the bunker and phone in whether he saw any Japanese landing there. This was about 20 miles north of the Golden Gate (entrance to the bay) on the ocean side of the Point Reyes peninsula.



Jim D Burns -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

in reply to Jim B

bases that produce supply each round (not resources, but straight supply) like US, Karachi, etc, do not produce supply for the enemy. Only for the national owner of the base. So, japan capturing the US base will not get the 15k supply each turn. They would still need to ship it all the way across the pacific.

bc


There is a huge resource production site in the U.S. base (5000 I think) that I was referring to, it would more than provide enough supply to feed a very large army, even if damaged significantly. There would also be considerable supply produced by the captured HI.

I should emphasize that I'm simply speculating here, I in now way condone a Japanese invasion in the early game. It might be fun to try it vs. the AI once just to see, but the chances of success are so low it would probably ruin a PBEM game for the Japanese side.

Jim



Bradley7735 -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:24:55 PM)

You are correct that capturing the resources would probably supply any army you could put on the map. I just wanted you to know that cities that produce straight supply don't give them to an occupying army.

bc



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:46:32 PM)

we shall see. I have 1/2 of the surface ships in place (actually a little too close as B-17's and B-25's took a swipe at one TF already. The transports though are still way in the rear and only slowly approaching)

KB is almost on station having attacked PH on the way (figure you 'have' to have a PH to even consider such an attack)



Bradley7735 -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:48:39 PM)

Nik,

Did you say you're doing this via head to head? If so, I take it you're running both sides? Or is the computer playing the allies?

bc



Jim D Burns -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:51:29 PM)

So what's your plan, S.F. only or multiple bases? Hehe you should start an AAR on this with some screenshots once you get close to shore. [:D]

Jim



Bradley7735 -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:52:43 PM)

Yes, please do an AAR. This sounds very interesting.



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:55:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Nik,

Did you say you're doing this via head to head? If so, I take it you're running both sides? Or is the computer playing the allies?

bc


Running both sides. Didn't want to risk the AI denuding the WC or doing some other kind of snafu



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 10:57:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

So what's your plan, S.F. only or multiple bases? Hehe you should start an AAR on this with some screenshots once you get close to shore. [:D]

Jim


My initial target is just SF.....a two city target i did not consider very feasible thus this 1st attempt will be a maximum effort concentrated on one point.



DrewMatrix -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 11:16:53 PM)

quote:

Running both sides. Didn't want to risk the AI denuding the WC or doing some other kind of snafu


Yeah, I mean, imagine how it would ruin your experiment if the AI stripped North America and the Central Pacific, made a huge convoy, and in a desperate gamble bet the whole game on an invasion of Hokkaido in the first month of the war . . .



Nikademus -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 11:29:42 PM)

i'll reiterate in the upcoming AAR but here's the list of "A$$umptions" for this fun excercise. (its not so terribly organized that i'd call it an out and out 'test')

1.) PH occurs (that way US Pac Fleet will be weaker than my forces

2.) Play the Allied side essentially in "paralysis mode" to simulate the initial shock of the PH attack. So nothing really moves for Allies (CV TF's go back to Pearl....Halsey makes his famous quote about Hell and the Japanese language)

3.) Allied player cannot fully react to "invasion USA" until the situation becomes "clear" enough i.e. no immed sorti-ing of the remains of the Pac Fleet with dest. SF on Turn 2.

ex. So far i have employed "limited reaction" based on "what" i can see as Allies. So far that ammounts to two spotted TF's about 500 miles off SF harbor. One TF is unid'd, the other reports 2 BB and 4 CA. hmmmm what are the Japanese up too?

reaction to this "intel" was moving a B-17 BG to SF to conduct attacks and SF's subs have sortied. most are deployed in a protective ring around SF.....two though are investigating the contact.

no other TF's have been "sighted" so far.



Jim D Burns -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/21/2004 11:53:18 PM)

I'd be very interested to know if crossing the "line" with units aboard ship activiates the 180 turn increase, or if actually landing troops is required. Can you keep an eye on that once you're close to the hexrow in question?

Thanks,

Jim



Cap Mandrake -> RE: The insanely early Allied INF arrival times.... (7/22/2004 12:26:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleBuck

I hope that they have been removed for restoration right? they woudln't destroy the guns woudl they? I know at Fort Rosecrans here in San Diego, they have some guns but if you go climbing around the Point you will see the defensive postions that have been sealed up. By 1943 any attack on San Diego would have been Suicide. The only beaches taht are assaultable happen to border on Camp Pendelton, or were In direct line of Camp Elliot. If you tried to enter the Harbor of San Diego you woudl have been blown out of the water, very narrow channel and mined as well as covered with guns. I want to get up to SF and see teh Presido and the bay forts as well.

UB


Here is a guy trying to restore Battery Pratt at Fort Stevens in Ore by fabricating the missing pieces by himself [X(]

[img]http://www.cdsg.org/pratt/cylinder.gif[/img]


http://www.cdsg.org/bpratt1.htm



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