has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (Full Version)

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rjinwootton -> has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/22/2004 9:25:44 AM)

i always buy snipers to use as scouts and as lookouts but when used as snipers they have NEVER caused a casualty,at best i can pin the squad[X(]....is it just me?[&:]
does this need looking at ???[sm=00000030.gif]



Melvin -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/22/2004 11:30:01 AM)

I've noticed that snipers do cause casualties somewhat well on closer ranges but they're easily killed by return fire.

One fun thing I like to do against the AI is to use an airplane to drop 5-10 snipers to the enemy's rear area. Once there they begin to hunt for artillery. When they fire from ranges of 5+ hexes they usually remain hidden. This way several snipers can destroy (or at least heavily suppress) rear units quite easily. The key is to sneak around (be wary of tanks and infantry) and destroy targets with several snipers and maybe artillery.

One of the coolest things I managed was to paradrop 6 snipers who then located the enemy A0 unit and sniped it to death :). That felt like a real Spec Op type of mission.

However, I haven't played 8.2 long enough to try snipers yet. Have they been changed?

//Melvin



rbrunsman -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/22/2004 11:54:11 PM)

Are you moving your sniper before you shoot? Are you shooting at long range. All of these things will reduce your chances of hitting. Try shooting from a stationary position and a "ready" unit at <5 hexes and see if you don't get a kill. Once a unit is pinned, it's much harder to get a kill.

Don't fire more than two times in a turn or you are increasing the chance of getting spotted quite a bit.

rb



KG Erwin -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 12:09:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Melvin

I've noticed that snipers do cause casualties somewhat well on closer ranges but they're easily killed by return fire.

One fun thing I like to do against the AI is to use an airplane to drop 5-10 snipers to the enemy's rear area. Once there they begin to hunt for artillery. When they fire from ranges of 5+ hexes they usually remain hidden. This way several snipers can destroy (or at least heavily suppress) rear units quite easily. The key is to sneak around (be wary of tanks and infantry) and destroy targets with several snipers and maybe artillery.

One of the coolest things I managed was to paradrop 6 snipers who then located the enemy A0 unit and sniped it to death :). That felt like a real Spec Op type of mission.

However, I haven't played 8.2 long enough to try snipers yet. Have they been changed?

//Melvin


Airdropped snipers? What a cool, if anachronistic idea--it's too 21st century, but in the game, anything goes. Snipers weren't changed in 8.2, but the AI picks for some nations will buy them more. The Japanese use them in the front lines , basically to pick off a couple of my men and offer spotting before they are killed. I had briefly considered the notion of increasing the snipers' survivability, but this idea was wisely discarded.



Hexed Gamer -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 12:41:21 AM)

A sniper is a precision instrument.

And just as you can't peel potatoes intelligently with a scapel, you can't use snipers in any but the most precise fashion.

I have busted tanks with snipers, but don't count on it happening often.

Snipers are best used on troops that can't adequately respond.

A unit that is already pinned to hell and back is easy meat for instance. As mentioned artillery crews are nice choices.

But if you use them as just another unit, well yeah they tend to end up severely dead :)



KG Erwin -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 3:18:03 AM)

I will only buy a sniper to fill out a core force, say for the Germans. I later upgrade him to a full Spec Ops (Sturmtruppen) squad. These also include the Brandenburgers. German Spec Ops are a generic for several elite assault or clandestine-op groups.



Gallo Rojo -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 8:09:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rjinwootton

i always buy snipers to use as scouts and as lookouts but when used as snipers they have NEVER caused a casualty,at best i can pin the squad[X(]....is it just me?[&:]
does this need looking at ???[sm=00000030.gif]


In SP.H2H.fr snipers are deadly

In SPWaW a sniper is basically a blind guy who has been sprinkle with holly water and was told "you are a sniper!": they can miss an elephant at two mts with a high precision rifle ... d@m! they even miss when the shoot to the air!



rjinwootton -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 8:44:31 AM)

i was under the impression that the snipers agenda was to shoot from a distance...5x50meters is not far at all..

and yes i am stationary and so is the target but i have still yet to cause a casuality only pinned

perhaps they should have a experience level of 100 plus mabe then they will hit something

the ai certainly achieves more and better results



Procrustes -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 7:46:55 PM)

I kill w/ snipers. Move them slow, shoot when still. Defensive stance helps everything hit everything (C&C on). I don't expect them to be destroying units, though - just taking nice pot-shots, taking away the movement and spotting bonuses of the enemy squads. A lot of times I just let them sit still - if they are in cover the enemy will walk right over them. Gives me a lot of info about what is going on in the battlefield. And I agree, they are deadly when you can find some enemy arty with them - sit still and pick off a man or two each turn, pretty soon it's dead.

The biggest thing to remember is that they are very fragile - set their range to 1, move carefully and use their small size to keep them out of sight.



Procrustes -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 7:47:09 PM)

Sorry - duplicate post somehow. Weren't we able to delete your own posts before?



Kristo Vaher -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 9:00:08 PM)

Snipers are great addition to small squad scenarios. Having military training passed myself, Ive tried to use snipers as they are used in real life. Usually snipers are used for an addition of scout squad. Lookout posts and such. But they are separate units, snipers usually kilometer from the main post, and scouts a bit less. Snipers arent alone, they have either a support team (half a squad) with them, or battle-partners assigned to each of them (for protection). Usually its like this:

2xsniper 2xsupport riflemen

or

3xsniper

Now three snipers is a deadly combination even in SPWaW.

For small force battles snipers are usually in the winning side. THey can crush enemy morale quickly and pin units down, even without the help of machinegun fire. Units feel a scope on their neck, and perhaps are afraid of that even more than MG on their way.

Anyways, in large scale battles, snipers should be used as one-strike surprise scouts. In small scale battles they should be used as a support team abit away from the main forces.

In SP WaW Ive used those tactics effectively. Usually made my smaller teams with a pair of snipers. Remember, enemy can quickly find out where one sniper is striking from, even if it takes time. But have two from different places and they will be confused. GOing after one, the other may strike and cause fatal casualties.

Anyways, mostly Ive used those two snipers watching on hills in woods over a great terrain. Usually fields and the sorts. Now enemy that approaches or passes by...

If you use them as scouts, then you know their coming. If the force is big, then dont start sniping as much as you can. Snipers are most effective against one squad, and not against many squads turn after turn. So when you do pick a target, keep that sniper to that one unless extreme measures force you otherwise. And even though Ive heard that snipers can harm armored units and such, I advise to use them against foot soldiers. Also keep a turn or two for the sniper to aim and not shoot. Watch the enemy, but dont fire the moment they appear. Thats just plain stupid, you should see what the situation is and how the chess is played before striking. And then you can fire, sniper can claim at least one casualty per turn, and if its a small scale battle, then demoralizing that squad is one effective way of winning the game.

YOu dont have to destroy the squad, after couple of casualties change your target if possible and do them down. One sniper, another sniper, one target another target. THey will be demoralized and pinned. Force that cant really give any trouble to your infantry main force.

Dont know if its the movies or action games, people seem to think that snipers are very useful action troop. They arent. They are useful recon unit with deadly capability of striking enemy squads from hidden positions and long ranges. For small scale battles, they are must have. For Normandy Assaults, just a little addition.

Must say, snipers are one of the most realistic sniper representations in any game. They have faults though, like being used quite well against moving vehicles and such. Against tanks seems to be the most ridiculous imho, but that doesnt happen that often.



Goblin -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 9:03:54 PM)

Play H2H. The snipers there actually hit things.


Goblin



Kristo Vaher -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 10:43:51 PM)

The snipers actually hit things in SP WaW

Its silly to think that snipers arent real in SP WaW. Making them into bloodhound shooters capable of killing a squad in a minute, well it isnt real. REMEMBER that squad goes way down after the first guy falls in the squad, and when a sniper in SP WaW spots an unaware squad, then the first shot will definetly count and a guy falls. Then others lay down and sniper has hard time to hit anyone from there, though he can.

Gosh I cant believe how ignorant people can be thinking of snipers as some uber soldiers. Elite snipers, commando types, and movie like folk like Jude Law in Enemy at the Gates sure may get many marked shots in a row planning them right and everything, but there may only be like one guy out of 100 like that.

There are some good books ahbout snipers and recon units during the ww2, read those and try to see what a sniper really is.



rbrunsman -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 10:58:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kristo Vaher
There are some good books ahbout snipers and recon units during the ww2, read those and try to see what a sniper really is.


Be warned, "A Grandfather's Tale" is NOT one of them.



Goblin -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 11:05:27 PM)

I'll wager a sniper could hit a truck on the first shot, from a hidden position. In the game, they often can't. It surprise me how ignorant people enjoy calling everyone else ignorant.


Goblin



rjinwootton -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/23/2004 11:21:51 PM)

well said goblin.......the snipers are just crap in spwaw 8.2[:@]


lets not make excuses for them not hitting anything......

they should be able to take out the tank commander aswell causing a casuality and keeping the tank buttond up for the rest of the game but i doubt if spwaw could keep trace of that (unlike combat mission where i find them effective)

i go back to my original question-i have yet to cause casualities with a sniper



Kristo Vaher -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/24/2004 12:15:00 AM)

Well if getting a casualty with a sniper is the issue of this post then do as follows:

Battle scenario

Buy yours and enemy troops. FOr you a sniper, for enemy an infantry squad.

Position the sniper into woods, hill is also a good position.

Set the enemy troop on the same line as your sniper.

Begin the battle, wait the enemy to appear.

Wait a turn or two for them to get closer, giving time for sniper to consentrate and aim.

Then shoot.

YOu should get at least one casuality on the first turn. I got 3 casualties in three turns.

As for the sniper hitting a truck, for sure. But force the truck to stop with that shot, near impossible for a regular sniper.

WHen I served in the army, the snipers were regular people like the rest, just better shooters and passed sniper training. But these guys would not hit a man in the head in a truck driving when truck moves from right to left from the view, or is at high speeds. Only a lucky shot or a pro shooter can do that. And I doubt that snipers during ANY world war really were pro's, as said, perhaps one out of hundred.

Also, btw, contrary to popular belief, most sniper engagements during ww2 took place at distances under 400 meters

Go play some counter strike if you like to see the "realistic" sniping by campers.

SP WaW was built by great people, of whom many know alot about was or the history of world wars. They had their reasons to make snipers work the way they work and these are the right reasons. Some people just dont like realism, and are obsessed with the sniper legends believing them to be sam fisher type super recon ghosts. There are sniper legends, like Simo Häyhä and Suko Kolkka, or Zaitsev, but the snipers you have in the game arent Simos and Zaitsevs. DUring world war you dont really have time to train snipers as properly and have them in great amounts, all with perfect skills. Its so much different from nowadays elite snipers in special forces.

Nowadays the goal of sniper training is to produce a sniper that can reliably place bullets in a 30 cm circle at 300 m in all weather at all angles. Sixty years ago the requirements were surely much less when troops were required.



Kevin E. Duguay -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/26/2004 7:29:58 AM)

Im with Goblin on this, the snipers in SPWaW really need a makeover. These guys cant hit any thing, and are useless, except as scouts. They should be able to get one shot one kill within reason and acording to nationality. (Japs had bad snipers) This subject should be taken up by the OOB team and corrected.



Svennemir -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/26/2004 7:51:02 PM)

In my experience snipers are useless except for recon. Okay, once one of my snipers "killed" 7 people with one shot, but that doesn't generally happen.

Airdropped snipers are cool, use them to take out the nazi zombies that shoot machineguns out of their stomachs (you know, the ones Doktor Schwabbs created).



m10bob -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/26/2004 8:03:54 PM)

I feel the snipers are seriously under-rated in SPWAW..
In my generation,if you had 10 guys,at least 1 of them was a farmer or hunter,or "sharpshooter" since early childhood(as I was).
My dad was an Army lifer and had taught my brother and I to knock heads off our Marx toy soldiers at 35 feet when we were 5 and 6 (respectively) with a Crossman pellet gun.
My point is that Army training needn't be the criteria for a good shot.A lot of people went it who already were good shots,and when someone was delegated to be a sniper,they were usually taken from the pool of better shots.
A true sniper SHOULD be able to hit *whatever* he is firing at 95% of the time,(or he's in the wrong line of work).
Should he fire,(and miss),he has just revealed his position,(or sure as hell will on his next shot).
I could (in my youth) hit that truckdriver,moving,because range diminshes the factor of movement.(I am not talking just armchair theory here,but an applied science).
I suggest the following.
1.If FC is to be used to assist ability to hit,I reccomend FC of "10"
2.I suggest a ROF of at least "4"..
3.I suggest the range of the waepon be increased to at least 600-800 yards,and the sniper unit should be size factor "0"..
BTW,in the American Army,a sniper does not need (nor get) a squad to protect him.(He may have one(1) spotter,but in WW2,I don't think he did.(Ref:Saving Pvt Ryan)..
I know Finland,Russia,Germany,Japan,and the U.S. had excellent snipers in that war,but they could hit what they were shooting at.It was just a matter of self-preservation after the 1st shot,and a sniper was deployed to hinder an entire enemy platoon(or even company),not just to make noise..Savvy??[sm=00000924.gif]



Wild Bill -> RE: has anyone's snipers ever hit the enemy?? (7/29/2004 12:14:22 AM)

Snipers, hit and run. If they stand and fight, they are doomed.

Yes, I've gotten kills with snipers. They've proved quite beneficial in slowing a unit, but if you leave them in place too long, they are dead meat.

If possible, leave them an exit route woods, buildings that will offer protection to the withdrawing sniper. He'll last a little longer.

Using them properly will prove them a handy part of your force.

WB



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