questions for the super Grognards around here... (Full Version)

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doomonyou -> questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 4:44:37 PM)

1) I find it very frustrating that to move units inter-command via ship you need to spend PP's. Is this realistic? Once the battle for the phillipines starts, If I want to move say the base force from Cebu to Davao, I need to spend PP's. Or a dutch unit from a useless location to a point of combat, same thing. MEanwhile planes can flit about willy nilly without issue. But if a base is on the same island the garrisons will happily all march to where ever.

I think the Allied player upon the suprise attack should have a fair pool of PP's to represent the willingness of theatre commands to rearrange as best they can to meet the threat...

Also For a historical simulation I notice that some things are compeltely a-historical. HK and Wake NEVER last anywhere as long as thier historical outcomes. While I welcome a nice element of randomness into the game going forward from the start, I think it would be nice to see an occaisonal wake island battle that doesn't end the evening it starts...



Mike Scholl -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:28:45 PM)

I agree with you 100%. It shouldn't be necessary to spend political points to move
units within their own command areas. Unfortunately, whomever coded the game
this as a means of preventing ahistoric switching of such units to OTHER commands.
Instead of something sensible like preventing them from being able to UN-load from
a TF at a base that wasn't of the same command. That would have solved the prob-
lem AND allowed historic moves within the theatres. But don't hold your breath for
a "fix".



moses -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:31:59 PM)

It would be nice to be able to rearrange the Dutch units a bit. I think it was a programming decision. Once youre troops are on ships you can go anywhere and they wanted you to have to stay in theater. So you are prevented from loading up. You do have the little ausi unit in Darwin that you can move somewhere and although I havn't tried it the PP value of some of the little Dutch units shouldn't be that high so maybe you could afford moving one or two. You can decide where replacements should go and with these tiny units it actually matters a little. And of course you can rearrange your air force as you like. So there is some flexability but I know what you mean.

With me HG works fine vs. another player but falls quickly when I play the AI. The AI sends both Divisions leaving the city they come from seemingly defensless. I've tried to punish this by moving my chinese units down to the city north of HG but they take HG very fast and theirs still some buggy things going on with land movement and retreat.

Of course its very hard to make everything work. If you "fix" the land combat model for HG chances are you've just broken it for Wake. Overall I've been pretty happy with it .



2Stepper -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:36:50 PM)

Actually there's a touch of historical realism thats there. Least early on. It basically stems around getting diplomatic clearances. While I don't know the SPECIFIC history of the region during the way, not everyone was on the same page at all times. PARTICULARLY the DEI. It should probably become easier to transfer units later in the game as the allies gelled together, but early on, it makes total sense to me.



Jim D Burns -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:37:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Instead of something sensible like preventing them from being able to UN-load from
a TF at a base that wasn't of the same command. That would have solved the prob-
lem AND allowed historic moves within the theatres. But don't hold your breath for
a "fix".



Actually this would end up tempting players to put an entire command aboard ship and leave them afloat. Once enough PP's were available they would simply change a rear area base and then unload the entire command, thus saving all of the units of said command instead of just a few as now. I totally empathize with the difficulties of this problem. What we have now isn't perfect, but it’s probably the best solution they could come up with.

Jim



McNaughton -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:41:32 PM)

Well, I have heard reports that Wake does hold out on occasion. Also, Hong Kong falling on December 25 is not necessarily meaning that it was destined to fall at that timeframe. The main reason it held out so long was that it took a while for the Japanese to assault Hong Kong Island. Defeating the Gin Drinker's Line was fairly easy, with the main obstacle being Victoria Harbour. However, WitP is unable to replicate this obstacle WITHIN the hex (a significant amount of Hong Kong is part of the mainland, with Hong Kong island being a small segment of it). This is the reason why it falls, because of the abstraction of a strategic scale game forces it to be so. WitP is much better than PacWar in this respect!

I totally understand the HQ limitations. It seems those who complain the most have the least understanding of the difficulties posed by game programmers to make a game that works. It was simply too difficult and complicated to waste time focussing on something that affects only a few units (a couple of Philippine Divisions and Dutch Battalions) that really won't change the course of the war at all. It is better, IMO, to show historic limitations with this feature included than to have no limitations at all.



moses -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:42:34 PM)

I just read that the Dutch were not technically at war until 11 Jan when Tarakan was invaded. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm curious if the wonderful dutch subs were even fighting prior to this.



McNaughton -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 5:43:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Instead of something sensible like preventing them from being able to UN-load from
a TF at a base that wasn't of the same command. That would have solved the prob-
lem AND allowed historic moves within the theatres. But don't hold your breath for
a "fix".


I can just imagine the uproar when someone goes through the trouble to load up a Philippine division and sends the TF to Australia and tries to unload it after the Philippines have fallen and no USAFFE base exists. Now they are stuck with a division on a TF that could never be unloaded!



Grouchy -> RE: questions for the super Grognards around here... (7/25/2004 6:13:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

I just read that the Dutch were not technically at war until 11 Jan when Tarakan was invaded. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm curious if the wonderful dutch subs were even fighting prior to this.



There was an agreement in case japan would start hostilities against the US.
On 8 december directly after PH the dutch gen-governour Tjarda van Starkenborgh Stachouwer (in name of the queen he couldn't reach her) declared war on japan.



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