Map Comments (Full Version)

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siRkid -> Map Comments (7/25/2004 6:19:44 PM)

Please post Map comments here.



pry -> RE: Map Comments (7/25/2004 6:35:42 PM)

I will compile a list of all the previous Map comments from the old thread there is no need to resubmit them Thanks.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Map Comments (7/25/2004 11:55:01 PM)

Would a "Panama Canal Hex" be useful? Even though the Canal itself is likely too far East to show on the map, just a hex on the East edge where ships tha come from the Canal appear. You can just have them show up at a West Coast Port and that is simpler but I gather the US did have ships come directly from the Canal to Australia (and had to have supplies/bases/ASW assets in the South East part of the map to provide for them).



pry -> RE: Map Comments (7/26/2004 1:35:31 PM)

Map Comments from old map/oob thread

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Thursday Island is on the wrong side of the Torres Strait. It should be at the North tip of Australia, at 48-51.
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1. I think Trincomalee is spelled wrong on the map. It is spelled "Trimcomalee" on the map, with an m instead of an n.

2. I think Lihue (in Hawaii) was spelled "Lihu" on the game map. Most spellings I see are Lihue or maybe Lihu'e.
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As indicated in a number of previous threads, a number of island groups in the Central/Eastern Pacific are missing, and were important historically. This is especially so for the Society Islands (Tahiti, Bora-Bora). Bora-Bora was a major early war US Navy base. Also a number of islands west of India are missing where the British maintained a few important bases.
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Johnston Island is spelled correctly on the base screen, but as "Johnson" Island on the map.

Also, not a typo but it would be nice if the name Milne Bay were used in place of Gili Gili...sounds so much better. Gili Gili sounds Silly Silly.
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It is Songkhlia in the reports... Songkhla on the map...

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Addu Atoll is missing from the map.
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Is that unnamed and undotted island west of Nauru supposed to be Ocean Island? Shouldn't it at least have a green dot on it?
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Request from Japanse wargamer...

1:Islands' wrong name
EtorofO JIMA = EtofU TOU
Kunashiri JIMA = Kunashiri TOU
These islands are not JIMA but TOU.
---------------------------------
Not a single detail is correct for Alaska.

Anchorage is located at Kenai instead of at the top of Cook Inlet.

Kodiak island is missing altogether and Kodiac is shown, incorrectly, on another island.

The 1940 proposal to build a road to Nome is built in the game - never went beyond Fairbanks - even today! Fairbanks is missing.

The trail to Nome is presumably the Ididerod trail. This should not exist. It is only passable in winter - and not very passable then. Unless you can drive dogsleds on rivers, it does not work most of the time. And no, winter is not that long in southern Alaska.

Needless to say, I live in Alaska.
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The Maldives would seem to make the map SW of Southern India..not a big deal..but might be useful as a seaplane base to screen the Indian Ocean
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The Alaskan / Canadian rail net portrayed in WitP is more wrong than right.

The one rail line in Alaska during WWII was centered on Anchorage and should extend 1 hex south to Seward on the Gulf of Alaska, and roughly due north to Fairbanks in the center of the state. Click here to see how it should look.

That was the only RR in Alaska at the time (and still true today). There was no rail running east from Anchorage as shown in the game. There was no rail connection between Fairbanks and Nome. And there was no rail (not even a road!) running along the Pacific Coast of Canada linking Seattle to Southeast Alaska.

In WWII, and today, the northernmost rail link of the US-Canadian RR net was the terminus of the Canadian National Railroad at Prince Rupert, just north of Vancouver. Prince Rupert, a magnificent deepwater port, became a major supply point supporting the US military in Alaska by ship. Until the Alcan "highway" (a mostly dirt and gravel road, closed during much of the winter) opened and allowed a trickle of overland supply to reach Alaska from the "Lower 48," all reinforcements and supplies had to reach Alaska by sea.

Historical RR Trivia: There was a second Alaskan RR. The White Pass & Yukon ran from Skagway - a port above Juneau in Southeast Alaska - to the gold mines of the Yukon. It is strategically insignificant in game terms and is properly not represented in the game.
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While you are at it, could you put Port Moresby back into C-47 range from Australia?
It seems to have migratedabout 100 miles between UV and WITP
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I think there's a typo on the map regarding Amchikita island in the Aleutians. According to the present day maps it should be Amchitka.
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akbrown -> RE: Map Comments (7/26/2004 4:58:46 PM)

I hope that some consideration is given to my recommendations for changing the Australian map, especially the railway (details given in my separate thread).



mongo -> RE: Map Comments (7/26/2004 7:55:49 PM)

quote:

While you are at it, could you put Port Moresby back into C-47 range from Australia?
It seems to have migratedabout 100 miles between UV and WITP


I'm happily moving troops and supplies from Cooktown to PM in the Coral Sea scen.



HawaiiFive-O -> RE: Map Comments (7/26/2004 8:19:09 PM)

Looks like my comments on the Hawaiian Islands from the last thread didn't make it into the compilation above, so here it is again.

Nihau should be Niihau.
Lokai should be Lanai.
Molokai on the map is correct, but the base is misspelled as Moloaki.



Theng -> RE: Map Comments (7/26/2004 9:13:26 PM)

Koepang - base and map name are different



Platoonist -> RE: Map Comments (7/27/2004 9:52:36 AM)

I was wondering if Portland, Oregon could be made into an actual port? The city as it stands is an inland airbase and land location only. Fort Stevens which is included in the game was built to guard the entrance to the Columbia River and thus to Portland. Plus Vancouver which is across the river from Portland in real life is where Mr. Kaiser built all those Casablanca Class CVEs. They currently show up in San Francisco. I can see why tho..... they probably weren't launched off the ways with a fully trained aircrew. [:D]

Played around with making the mouth of the Columbia in Photoshop. However, I think a more practical solution might be to move the city one hex to the west.

[img]http://ruhkarv.homestead.com/files/Portland.jpg[/img]

Just another paper in the suggestion box........[:D]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 4:21:03 AM)

I'm a bit late to the party so forgive me if I'm going to say something that's too obvious or is already been commented:

Typos and such:
- Petropavlask in Russia ought to be Petropavlovsk
- Khomsomalsk - Khomsomolsk (or Komsomolsk)
- Imam (also in Russia) - I am unable to check but you have Imam on the map, while the base itself is named Iman
- Johore Bharu has typo (Bahru)
- Are you sure Komandorski islands were US territory? I am not sure without checking but I'll place a small bet they were (and are) Russian


Other:
- Where are Maldives Islands?
- Where is that small island SW of Java? (Was it Cocos or Keeling island? Not sure and unable to check right away, sorry) Japs did a proper landing operation to capture it.
- What was your source on Manchukuo placenames? I'd say some Soviet maps but that's not consistent. Tsitsihar is Soviet way to write what is Qiqihar for Chinese. Don't know the Jap name, but Kwantung Army HQ was in town that Japanese called Hsin Ching (Chanchung for Chinese)
- That rail in the Easternmost part of Mongolia strikes me as very odd - are you sure it existed? That's the area of Nomonhan - one of the most desolate places on Earth, there was rail east of it (Qiqihar to Borzya) but not there

Many SBS values (you know port/airbase) have been changed from UV - no complaints from me, but why was that?

O.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 6:36:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I'm a bit late to the party so forgive me if I'm going to say something that's too obvious or is already been commented:

Typos and such:
- Petropavlask in Russia ought to be Petropavlovsk
- Khomsomalsk - Khomsomolsk (or Komsomolsk)
- Imam (also in Russia) - I am unable to check but you have Imam on the map, while the base itself is named Iman
- Johore Bharu has typo (Bahru)
- Are you sure Komandorski islands were US territory? I am not sure without checking but I'll place a small bet they were (and are) Russian


Other:
- Where are Maldives Islands?
- Where is that small island SW of Java? (Was it Cocos or Keeling island? Not sure and unable to check right away, sorry) Japs did a proper landing operation to capture it.
- What was your source on Manchukuo placenames? I'd say some Soviet maps but that's not consistent. Tsitsihar is Soviet way to write what is Qiqihar for Chinese. Don't know the Jap name, but Kwantung Army HQ was in town that Japanese called Hsin Ching (Chanchung for Chinese)
- That rail in the Easternmost part of Mongolia strikes me as very odd - are you sure it existed? That's the area of Nomonhan - one of the most desolate places on Earth, there was rail east of it (Qiqihar to Borzya) but not there

Many SBS values (you know port/airbase) have been changed from UV - no complaints from me, but why was that?

O.


IslandSW ofJava was Christmas Is. Japan occupied it.



bradfordkay -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 9:43:54 AM)

Troops are "not allowed" to march along the rail line that runs from the hex NE of Rangoon towards Akyab. Yes, I know that it turns into a trail across the Irrawaddy (I think that's the river), but it still should allow travel. Try an F6... you'll see that it shows blue hexsides even though there's a rail line there.



Xargun -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 10:03:12 AM)

Not sure of the island name (south of Mindanao). The island has 2 bases. The southernmost base is labeled Weda, but if you look at it, it's name is Wasile... Is this a mistake or is the name Weda the island name ? If so, it needs to match the other island names and not look like a base name.

Xargun



Arkady -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 2:12:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Troops are "not allowed" to march along the rail line that runs from the hex NE of Rangoon towards Akyab. Yes, I know that it turns into a trail across the Irrawaddy (I think that's the river), but it still should allow travel. Try an F6... you'll see that it shows blue hexsides even though there's a rail line there.


it's dark-blue hex side = can be crossed by ground units only



Theng -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 3:23:31 PM)

I thought the Maldives were the Argentinian name for the Falkland Islands...



Platoonist -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 3:33:59 PM)

The Argentinians call the Falklands the Malvinas

Thr Maldives are a chain of atolls in the Indian Ocean.

[img]http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/countryfacts/images/maps/large/00001649.gif[/img]



Captain Cruft -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 3:34:34 PM)

A general issue, I'm not sure it shouldn't go in the OOB thread.

All the empty bases/beaches with fuel/supply in them. Any chance of removing so they really are empty?



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 5:05:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xian

I thought the Maldives were the Argentinian name for the Falkland Islands...


No it's Islas Malvinas, Maldives or Maledives is swarm of very small islands... oh never mind, I see Platoonist already posted a map [:D]

Brits had naval base there, I once read an account by British sailor who saw giant squid next to his ship while on watch duty on a ship anchored there.

Hey, that gives me the idea - we want giant squids in the WITP database!! [:D][:D][:D]

Oleg



Theng -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 6:35:45 PM)

yes, next to the Sychelles... sorry, brain fart again :)



bradfordkay -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 6:54:17 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Troops are "not allowed" to march along the rail line that runs from the hex NE of Rangoon towards Akyab. Yes, I know that it turns into a trail across the Irrawaddy (I think that's the river), but it still should allow travel. Try an F6... you'll see that it shows blue hexsides even though there's a rail line there.



it's dark-blue hex side = can be crossed by ground units only


Interesting, then why do I receive the message "Not allowed" when I issue orders to ground troops wishing to travel along this rail line? Did this have anything to do with there being enemy troops in the hex my troops were trying to escape from?



DrewMatrix -> RE: Map Comments (7/28/2004 7:47:42 PM)

quote:

why do I receive the message "Not allowed" when I issue orders to ground troops wishing to travel along this rail line?


IIRC (I have only read the Docs twice [:)], you can only move along a path where it is possible to trace supply. Can you trace supply to the hex you wish as a destination? ie is there an enemy unit sitting on the supply path somewhere?

The supply path has a certain "supply movement cost" limit too, as I recall.



bradfordkay -> RE: Map Comments (7/29/2004 7:01:12 AM)

quote:

IRC (I have only read the Docs twice , you can only move along a path where it is possible to trace supply. Can you trace supply to the hex you wish as a destination? ie is there an enemy unit sitting on the supply path somewhere?

The supply path has a certain "supply movement cost" limit too, as I recall.


My initial attampt was to send the troops to Akyab, which is a supplied base (low on supplies, but supplied). There were enemy troops in the hex with me, but not further along the line. I suppose it is possible that the game felt that the supply would come from Rangoon and thus the destination would be cut off from supply by the troops in the hex I was trying to leave. To me this seems silly, because I was trying to withdraw troops along the rail line towards the Indian border and thus towards more supply.

If this is the case, then the game mechanics need some work, because you should be able to withdraw your troops towards your own lines. Please don't get me wrong, I love WitP, I just think that my troops should have been able to march along that rail line since it was there. Now my troops had to withdraw into Rangoon where they are trapped and the raod to Akyab is wide open. You had better believe that I will be livid if later the Japanese will be able to march along that line.



ATCSMike -> RE: Map Comments (7/29/2004 7:33:15 AM)

Well,

The northern 1/3-1/4 of Alaska is missing. The game shows it under the ice pack. I'm positive the ice wasn't covering that much of Alaska during WWII. [:D]

The mountain ranges are wrong. The Brooks Range (northern) and the Alaska Range (southern) don't connect at all. There are valleys and other mountains in between. As seen here: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/united_states_wall_2002_ak.jpg

There is no trail going to Nome. There is no railroad into the interior and there shouldn't be any kind of a road going into the SE part of the state. Those were more likely winter trails.

The Yukon River is missing along with the Tanana, and the Copper River. I know, I know, I'm getting picky, but those are 3 of the major rivers in AK.

Kodiak Island should be a little bigger and have an E-W orientation not N-S.

Anchorange seems to be in the wrong place, though it's hard to tell. The finger spit of land west of ANC shouldn't be there I think. If the river shown on the map is the Susitna River it should be further west, I believe.

Fairbanks is missing. It was one of the stopovers for Lend Lease with Russia.


Mike [sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



Mike Scholl -> RE: Map Comments (7/29/2004 9:12:11 AM)

The real problem with all the corrections peing posted for Australia and Alaska and other places is this.
There are hundreds of WWII era and later maps available as documents from all kinds of places. Doing
a map requires research and dilligence, but all the information is available. If they managed to totally
screw up the map when all that was needed was some carefull copying, how can the buyer trust any of
the other information in the game? That's what's dissappointing about a poorly done map..., it opens
everything the designers did in the whole game to mistrust.



bradfordkay -> RE: Map Comments (7/29/2004 9:19:08 AM)

I have to revise my map comment. You CAN march along the rail line from Rangoon to Akyab (okay, rail only half the way), but you cannot choose as a destination any of the hexes in between the bases except for 29,33. If you try to choose 30,32 29,31 or 30,30 you get the "not allowed" message. I was wanting to defend each river crossing along the way, but am unable to choose those hexes as a destination for my retreating troops. If I choose Akyab as a destination, the troops will happily make the march. Go figure...


EDIT, days later: This was appearently fixed in the big patch, according to the list David posted.



BPRE -> USFEE or USAFFE (7/29/2004 9:40:53 PM)

Hi,

I just noticed that the Strategic map lists the Command HQ as USFEE but the actual HQ is named USAFFE and that's how it's shown in case you try to change HQ for a base.

The manual lists the command as USFEE too.

Best regards
BPRE



Jaws_slith -> RE: USFEE or USAFFE (7/30/2004 12:02:45 AM)

Found this one... I think New Guinea is more above Australia then it is now.


[image]http://home.planet.nl/~zwaan480/Pacific41.jpg[/image]



BPRE -> RE: USFEE or USAFFE (7/30/2004 12:08:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaws43

Found this one... I think New Guinea is more above Australia then it is now.



North is not straight up on the game map. You can't compare it directly with a normal map.
Is that explaining the difference?

Regards
BPRE



Jaws_slith -> RE: USFEE or USAFFE (7/30/2004 12:16:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BPRE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaws43

Found this one... I think New Guinea is more above Australia then it is now.



North is not straight up on the game map. You can't compare it directly with a normal map.
Is that explaining the difference?

Regards
BPRE


Ok this is map North and you mean WitP map is True North?



BPRE -> RE: USFEE or USAFFE (7/30/2004 1:44:56 AM)

Hi,

I'm not that good at maps but when I compare the WitP map with a real map I can see that it is slightly turned. The equator as an example runs roughly from Nauru (79,91) to Waigen Is. (41,73) to the northern part of Sinkep Is. (22,53). I hope that shows what I meant.

I think the map is OK in regard of the position of New Guinea and Australia.

Regards
BPRE



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