How to kill a KV (Full Version)

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Larry Holt -> How to kill a KV (1/24/2002 9:22:00 AM)

So, we have been treated to tutorials on how to kill a tiger but with LV we need to know how to kill those &*%$# KVs. I LOVE LV as it makes me fight with a realisticly light German force. KVs are slow and have a limited number of shots. The KV2's especially seem to only have 2 shots even with the opportunity fire that can give extra shots. They are not too accurate*. You just cannot kill them frontally at long ranges. So, first I isolate them. I kill off the BTs & T-28s, etc. that accompany them with long range fires. Then I maneuver so that I am about 1/2 of my tanks' MPs away. I drop arty to supress any infantry around then call in the Stukas if I have any. Stukas will rarely kill a KV but only supress them so don't use them too early or the KVs will have time to recover before you close for the kill. Once the Stukas/arty falls move in for the kill & I mean adjecent. Use inf and eng for close assaults. They need to be stationary for a turn to get their % above their base (= # men in the unit) but after a turn they often get to 20-something %. * OK none of the Soviets are too accurate but in my last LV battle I lost all but one of my tanks. I lost 9 tanks, guess how many hits it took to kill them at around 15 range? Only 14 hits! Two hits immobilized tanks, one hit broke its main gun. Of all the hits only ONE was non-destructive. That's from T28s & T34s. I also lost a kubelwagon to a 2% shot at about 25 range and a PZI to a T28's low velocity main gun, a 2% shot at long range. AAHHHH! So don't always count on the Soviets not being able to hit you.



David R. Elkins -> (1/24/2002 11:04:00 AM)

Great info on Lost Victories Larry. I read with great intrest. The trouble with the KVs makes you appreciate the skill with which the actual Werhmacht had to execute in order to survive.



Redleg -> (1/24/2002 11:41:00 AM)

KVs. A very interesting factual account of how the Germans learned on-the-job. A single KV in German supply line made it impossible to expand and exploit a bridgehead during the first week of the war in Latvia (I think). The KV took everything with impunity that a battery of 50mm could throw at it. Then it systematically destroyed the 50mm battery. That night, a double-size demoliation placed by engineer assault only succeeded in damaging a track and creating a dent or two. Next day, German section of 88s was dragged up. A diversionary tank attack pelted the KV with 50mm that had no effect. The KV survived 8 hits of 88mm. 1 round penetrated the armor. But the tank was still functioning. So the Germans pushed a grenade through the hole made by the 88. In the meantime, this single KV had delayed a German regiment for the best part of 2 days. It had, in addition to the 50mm ATs, destroyed something in excess of a dozen supply trucks. So I don't think KVs in the game are as hard to kill as this one was. Of course, this was anecdotal and not representative of KVs in general
but it must have been a rude awakening for the Germans only a few days into the war. I have a photo of this KV.



Commander Klank -> (1/24/2002 12:32:00 PM)

I love my KVs in early war battles If the German didn't buy like 10 batteries of 88s I can have a field day with his lighter stuff. On the same hand I've seen them fall to some dinky shots also And your right the KV's shot rate is slow an low. But I still can't resist smashing them through the Germans nice and neat Panzer Mk II and III formations. I'm such a stinker, I know..........



swagman -> (1/24/2002 12:33:00 PM)

I seem to recall a similar story, but there were more than one…a scenario was build around this one, but I forget the name…this KV first knocked out a couple of lead Pz38t's, and the battery of 50mmAT brought up to deal with it. When the 88's arrived, it knocked them out before they could be deployed. The engineers that night knocked off a tread before being driven off by MG fire…another section of 88's were then brought up under cover of darkness…but the "poor" quality Russian armour absorbed almost every hit…again I think one round penetrated without affect…the crew final surrendered after running out of ammunition…they were deaf and had bleeding ear-drums, ruptured by all the shells that had hit their KV…



Grenadier -> (1/24/2002 1:12:00 PM)

Radziechow, a little known battle even for East Front enthusiasts, was the real first encounter with the KV's and T-34. The tank battle of 6/24 at Rasienani in Lithuania is better known because 6 Panzer Division was stopped cold and it took 2 days to defeat the Soviets. At Radziechow on June 23, the 2nd day of Barbarossa, the 11 Panzer Division was attacked by the Soviet 10th Tank Division which ended up losing 40 tanks as those of you who have played Lost Victories and looked at the documents know by now.



degen -> (1/24/2002 1:52:00 PM)

My tactics for KVs are first to get an elevation advantage on them. This makes them vulnerable to top hits by the weaker german guns. I mentioned this earlier, but I killed one KV with a 37mm ATG at 11 hexes with a lucky top hit. That made my day! But similar to Larry's suggestion, I kill off the weaker tanks so that I can concentrate on the KVs. I still lob some shots at the KVs with everything down to 20mm AA to let them know that I have not forgotten about them. I have scored some suspension hits on them and other "vulnerable location" hits that will slow down the KVs, and with the poor quality of russian crews early on, caused them to rout or retreat. Heavy artillery also seems to distract the KVs. I hate them, but having KVs on the battlefield early in the war, really makes the german player have to work for a victory.



panda124c -> (1/24/2002 7:57:00 PM)

You can actually kill them, I usually pound on them untill they route, or retreat anything that removes them from the battle field.



TheZel66 -> (1/24/2002 8:32:00 PM)

the key larry is "slow". you need to manuver your PzKwIII's around to their flanks, or even behind them... i also take some depleted squads to hop on the PzKwIII's, and after the KV's have been suppressed by artillery or armor, move right up and take them out with the infantry. out flank and out number.. thats how you do it.



Charles2222 -> (1/25/2002 1:11:00 AM)

There are a number of approaches I would take. Firstly, using an 88flak in there wouldn't hurt if available. Secondly, I would put 4 tanks minimum on every KV (possibly six guns altogether), with the idea being to suppress it enough that it is useless (and of course getting possible track or top hits). The rest of the fire would concentrate on trying to eliminate the 46mm guns, preferably on the tanks with the best firing ratings, as their armor is of very secondary importance, considering how they're all pretty thin. Assuming one has a pretty good amount of smoke through PZIVs and artillery, I would try to screen off a good deal of the 46mm force which I wasn't planning on firing on initially. Considering things froma reverse angle, if you wished to screen the KVs while suppressing/destroying 46mms, I would get infantry in front of my armor, and try to knock the KVs from firing for lack of vision via the smoke, and then when the KVs come through the smoke, they have a buffet of infantry to get through. This of course is made much easier if the KVs aren't spread across the board and are instead on a flank. If the KVs are spread, as in their being more than 3 hexes from their HQ, the suppressing-the-monster-tank-so-it-can't-fire-strategy (especially considering how easy it is to hit) will really reap rewards.



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