Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors:

Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (Full Version)

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Brady -> Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/2/2004 7:38:38 PM)
Below is a list by plane type of errors found in the OOB of Scenerio 16, I modified my 15 so I wanted to start with a clean slate so I used 16 as the base, the errors are referenced to Rene J. Francillon's Book Japaese Aircraft of the Pacific War, and some of Buschells volumes on Japanese aircraft, and so other books I have on the subject. A Note on Endurance, for the most it would seam that endurance figures are about half that of the range listed for the plane type in most referances, though in many instances the figure given in the game seams considerably less, since I am not entirely shure how WiTP handels this my coments on the endurance errors beleow may be off in this regard. A5M4: Endurance given as 746 st miles in most referances yet in the game listed at 200. Manuaver it has been my understanding that the A5M was as manuaverable if not a bit more in fact than the Zero yet this is not reflectedin the manuaver rating in the game. A6M2-N: Endurance listed as Normal at 714 miles/ Max 1,107, yet in the game given as 240. A6M2:Endurance figures listed at 1,160 Normal/ 1,930 Max , game gives about 590, not bad if based soly on normal, but my understanding is that max included the drop tank and this was used often. Manuaver figure is less than the A6M3 and this is not corect the A6M2 was more manuaverable than the A6M3. A6M3: Endurance again seams off Max listed as 1,477, and game alows 385. Manuaver see A6M2 coments. 20 mm Type 99 Cannon soould be 20 mm Type 99 Cannon mod.2. A6M5:Endurance again seams a bit low 1,194 Max given yet we see only 310 in game, again max figure would sugest the use of a drop tank, and this was often done. Gun Package should be two 20 mm Type 99 mod 2 cannon, and one each of the following 7.7mm type 97 MG and 13.2mm type 3 MG, since the A6M5 is a generic a/b and since most of the planes built in this series were so equiped it would seam the more represenative gun load out. Their is also some argument for switching the 60 KG bombload for a single 250 KG as this was often dun in the field and led to the standaradsation of this load out on future models. A6M5C: Endurance see above. Gunpackage should be three 13.2 mm type 3 MG's and two 20 mm type 99 mod 2. A6M8: Endurance suspect based on finding listed above. Gunpackage should list 20 mm Type 99 mod.2, should also carry the 250 Kg bomb type, indead it was capable of carrying the 500 KG bomb. A7M2: Endurance seams a tad low again though not as bad as some of the figures listed above, realy hard to say since this plane never realy entered combat. 20mm Cannon should be again the 20mm type 99 mod.2. N1k-: Endurance N1K1 890/1,581 (normal/max) miles, N1K2 1,066/1,488 miles, game alows 230!, I listed both types since the George in WiTP is generic representing both plane types. Bombload should be two 250 KG bombs , the gun package is representative of the N1K2-J, and the bombload of this and many of the N1K1's was two 250 kg bombs, heck some models could load four 250 kg bombs. J2M:Endurance listed at 1,180 st miles game alows 320. Gun package should be two Type 99 cannons and two type 99 mod.2 cannons. ........................ Later I will contune withe list of the rest of teh navy types then do one for the Army.

Primal Fury -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/2/2004 7:55:50 PM)
Do the game endurance figures represent combat radius? If so doubling them would make them pretty close in some cases to the endurance listings you give. It is hard to imagine that the ratings for the A6M2 are not dead on.

vonmoltke -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/2/2004 8:35:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brady A6M5C: Endurance see above. Gunpackage should be three 13.2 mm type 3 MG's and two 20 mm type 99 mod 2. Brady, I was poking around the other day and my sources indicated that the specs for the in-game A6M5c are actually those of the A6M7; the A6M5c was not a fighter-bomber, it was just an upgunned A6M5.

Moquia -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/2/2004 8:44:55 PM)
About the Zero. I have read the Zero initially didn't have the range to fly from Formosa to Clark's Field. They had to tinker with the engine and use the leanest possible fuel mixture, given it a range of 500 miles. Also they did take Batan Island to use it as a refuelling point. In the game the A6M2 can easily fly to Clark's Field and back within normal range.

MengCiao -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/2/2004 8:49:05 PM)
I thought endurance was minutes of flight. The starter Zero has a radius of combat 11 hexes or 660 miles...isn't that about right? The A5M4 at 200 minutes or 3.333 hours would fly about 750 miles at about 250 miles an hour...so doesn't that seem right?

tanjman -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/3/2004 12:44:34 AM)
Brady, The endurance listed in the database editor is not the range but how long the plane can stay in the air measured in minutes. From page 23 of the editor manual: Endurance This is the number of minutes the plane can fly before running out of fuel. The max range of the aircraft in miles is calculated by taking the endurance times the cruising speed and dividing this by 3600. quote: ORIGINAL: Brady Below is a list by plane type of errors found in the OOB of Scenerio 16, I modified my 15 so I wanted to start with a clean slate so I used 16 as the base, the errors are referenced to Rene J. Francillon's Book Japaese Aircraft of the Pacific War, and some of Buschells volumes on Japanese aircraft, and so other books I have on the subject. A Note on Endurance, for the most it would seam that endurance figures are about half that of the range listed for the plane type in most referances, though in many instances the figure given in the game seams considerably less, since I am not entirely shure how WiTP handels this my coments on the endurance errors beleow may be off in this regard. A5M4: Endurance given as 746 st miles in most referances yet in the game listed at 200. Manuaver it has been my understanding that the A5M was as manuaverable if not a bit more in fact than the Zero yet this is not reflectedin the manuaver rating in the game. A6M2-N: Endurance listed as Normal at 714 miles/ Max 1,107, yet in the game given as 240. A6M2:Endurance figures listed at 1,160 Normal/ 1,930 Max , game gives about 590, not bad if based soly on normal, but my understanding is that max included the drop tank and this was used often. Manuaver figure is less than the A6M3 and this is not corect the A6M2 was more manuaverable than the A6M3. A6M3: Endurance again seams off Max listed as 1,477, and game alows 385. Manuaver see A6M2 coments. 20 mm Type 99 Cannon soould be 20 mm Type 99 Cannon mod.2. A6M5:Endurance again seams a bit low 1,194 Max given yet we see only 310 in game, again max figure would sugest the use of a drop tank, and this was often done. Gun Package should be two 20 mm Type 99 mod 2 cannon, and one each of the following 7.7mm type 97 MG and 13.2mm type 3 MG, since the A6M5 is a generic a/b and since most of the planes built in this series were so equiped it would seam the more represenative gun load out. Their is also some argument for switching the 60 KG bombload for a single 250 KG as this was often dun in the field and led to the standaradsation of this load out on future models. A6M5C: Endurance see above. Gunpackage should be three 13.2 mm type 3 MG's and two 20 mm type 99 mod 2. A6M8: Endurance suspect based on finding listed above. Gunpackage should list 20 mm Type 99 mod.2, should also carry the 250 Kg bomb type, indead it was capable of carrying the 500 KG bomb. A7M2: Endurance seams a tad low again though not as bad as some of the figures listed above, realy hard to say since this plane never realy entered combat. 20mm Cannon should be again the 20mm type 99 mod.2. N1k-: Endurance N1K1 890/1,581 (normal/max) miles, N1K2 1,066/1,488 miles, game alows 230!, I listed both types since the George in WiTP is generic representing both plane types. Bombload should be two 250 KG bombs , the gun package is representative of the N1K2-J, and the bombload of this and many of the N1K1's was two 250 kg bombs, heck some models could load four 250 kg bombs. J2M:Endurance listed at 1,180 st miles game alows 320. Gun package should be two Type 99 cannons and two type 99 mod.2 cannons. ........................ Later I will contune withe list of the rest of teh navy types then do one for the Army.

Brady -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/3/2004 2:00:42 AM)
J1N1-S: Endurance listead at 1,581 miles normal and max at 2,348, the game alows for 540. This plane type was fited with several diferent gun configurations, while the upward guns apear to be of the Type 99 MK I series the forward guns are Type 99 MK II (depending on the varient) If radar equiped (or searchlight as many were ) the forward guns would not be carried. My referances dont show the night fighters carrying bombs, also the bombs are shwon a facing -F, I beelave 12-XT is the corect facing for this weapon type. J1N1-R: The endurance figure of 600 for this planes does indead seam better than it's relative listed above though again it does apear to be a bit short changed. C6N1-S: 1,914 normal,3,300 max miles game alows 480. Again this plane type is shown having a bomb capacity and I done beleave othe rthan in a Kamakise role it ever realy had one moch like the J1N listed above, unless this is neaded to alow for the Kamakisie aspect (if so this is kinda odd since the load they were capable of carying in these guises was considerably larger than the ones given in the game, the J1N for example could manage two 250 kg bombs in a Kamakise configuration.) C6N: See above. D1A: I like how we can have the standard and well published full bombload for this plane and we cant for the val Endorance figures seam ok for this plane though still a bit shy not enough to realy mention. D3A: Endurance is again semingly short for this plane with 914 to 840 miles given for the two primary varients (again the val is generic in WiTP) and a game value of 300 shown. As is well know by now the bomb load isue for the val is a subject of much debate. The manuaver figure for this plane is a bit harsh imo, Vals were very handy so much so if fact tehy were considered capable of dog fighting. D4Y: We again have a generic Japanese aircraft model, and the figure given for spead is representative of the slowest of the all at 343. A total of 2,038 D4Y's were built of those aprox. 700 were D4Y1's rated at 343 max spead, the rest all betered this spead by around almost 20 mph, the D4Y3 and D4Y2 managed 357 and 360 mph respectively and together represented the larger share of teh production run with well over 800 of both types being built, finishing out the run was the D4Y4 rated at 350 mph. Endurance figure in the game for this type is 220,despite the fact it managed on average nearly 1,000 miles normal and about 2,000 miles max (vared between 2,400 and 1,600 depending on model for max range). Bombload the game alows but one single 250 KG bomb, though the D4Y in all it's guises could manage 500Kg loads for short ranged sorties, what is realy interesting is depending on the source the only times this plane type managed to hit a CV it did so with a 500 KG bomb ( or two 250 KG bombs again depends on the source). Manuaver figure again seams a bit harsh. B4Y: Seams close enough though still a tad short on the range figure. B5N: Endurance seams odd only becuse I dont compleatly understand how WiTP arives at these figures,referances list from between 608 and 1,237 miles (normal/Max) for this plane the game alows 380. the Manuaver figure for the Kate seams a bit harsh at 20, having flow it in flight sims the plane is very easy to handel and was preportedly so in real life. A note on Manuaver: Figures Having as an example a plane like the Hellcate with a figure of 36 and the Zero at a similar figure is giving me serious WTF vibes, prety much all the planes above could easly outmanuaver a plane like the Hellcate yet their manuaver values are way lower, even planes with identicale manuaver figures like the George and the Hellcate give cause for serious concern since the George owns a Helcate in this regard. B6N: Again we have a generic plane type hear the endurance is agin a point of concern, with figures given for 909-1,085 normal/ 2,142-1,892 max miles to a game figure of 350. Torpedo is show as "11-INT", I belave "12-EXT" would be the corect setting. Manuaver agian a bit harsh. B7A: Endurance, figures given show a normal range of 1,151 max of 1,888, game alows 450. Manuaver figure of 22 is way off by all acounts this plane handeled extreamly well some sources liken it to that of the Zero in this regard. This plane should also have an Armor value of 1. ................................................... TY Tanjm for posting that I will have to do some math it would seam[:)]

MadDawg -> RE: Japanese Navy Fighter OOB errors: (8/3/2004 3:33:51 AM)
Hey Guys, maybe its time to consider starting one collective effort to make this game as historically accurate as possible? Lemurs has already made a great start and I think had already gone into a great deal of detail, but if someone had the time to create a web site and forum just for this project I think there are a lot of people whom could pool their collective knowledge and come up with an extremely impressive result. Dawg

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