Community Mod! (Full Version)

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McNaughton -> Community Mod! (8/5/2004 9:44:58 PM)

Well, there has been a lot of talk, but maybe we should get organized.

Creating a community mod to address some of the OOB corrections would probably help the situation. Matrix will probably take a few patches to catch up on a lot of the OOB corrections because it is very time consuming, plus they are concerned with enhancing things like the AI.

Since we have an excellent editor, we can do this job for Matrix.

I have done a lot of research and planned changes for the British/Empire/Dutch aspect of the game, and know that others have extra material to add to this, as well as Japanese/American/Chinese/Russian.

While it will be difficult to come to a consensus on a lot of things, we can start discussing what we feel are the MAJOR changes we should implmenent, saving some of the technical details for personalized modding. Differences between major and minor would be...

Major: Creating two versions of the Hurricane II (a fighter with machine guns, and a fighter-bomber with cannons).

Minor: Tweaking the P-40E Warhawk climb rate from 2800 to 2750.


Some main areas of concentration shold be:

Leaders
Weapons
Aircraft
Air Groups
Ship Classes
Ships
Headquarters
Land Combat Units

Maybe we could open up a few specialist threads on the Scenario Design / Game Editor area with specific titles based on specific themes (i.e., a Leader thread, talking about new/changed leaders).

Any thoughts?



mongo -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 10:17:39 PM)

Isn't the major problem we will face the fact that the database is full?

We would have to take stuff out to add new classes and such?

Nailing that down to everyone's satisfaction sounds like an undertaking to me [:D]



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 10:19:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

Well, there has been a lot of talk, but maybe we should get organized.

Creating a community mod to address some of the OOB corrections would probably help the situation. Matrix will probably take a few patches to catch up on a lot of the OOB corrections because it is very time consuming, plus they are concerned with enhancing things like the AI.

Since we have an excellent editor, we can do this job for Matrix.

I have done a lot of research and planned changes for the British/Empire/Dutch aspect of the game, and know that others have extra material to add to this, as well as Japanese/American/Chinese/Russian.

While it will be difficult to come to a consensus on a lot of things, we can start discussing what we feel are the MAJOR changes we should implmenent, saving some of the technical details for personalized modding. Differences between major and minor would be...

Major: Creating two versions of the Hurricane II (a fighter with machine guns, and a fighter-bomber with cannons).

Minor: Tweaking the P-40E Warhawk climb rate from 2800 to 2750.


Some main areas of concentration shold be:

Leaders
Weapons
Aircraft
Air Groups
Ship Classes
Ships
Headquarters
Land Combat Units

Maybe we could open up a few specialist threads on the Scenario Design / Game Editor area with specific titles based on specific themes (i.e., a Leader thread, talking about new/changed leaders).

Any thoughts?

Spooky's site is already kind of a "mod" forum. There are all sorts of unofficial "mods" of stuff over there.



Bradley7735 -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 10:23:40 PM)

McNaughton,

I like your idea. There are two basic threads that go through this forum. Game fixes and Scenario fixes. We definitely could to the 2nd form of corrections, if we want.

But, there are some logistic problems. We'd all have to modify the same scenario and database files. So, they'd need to be stored somewhere public. And, you wouldn't want any old idiot (like myself) making modifications to the file, especially if the majority of the users didn't like the change. So, you'd need write protection for only certain individuals. And you'd need people who actually know what they're talking about when wanting to change something (also not me).

I don't know how any of this would work, since I'm also not a tech geek. (I'm a geek, just not a tech geek)

But, I definitely like the idea. Brady could put in the 1000 midget subs. You could correct any errors on the Brits side. I could add the Nimitz (from Final Countdown). etc etc. That way, all of our efforts to help Matrix correct any OOB errors would be combined and very efficient.

But, I don't know how it would work.



Subchaser -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 10:31:46 PM)

Outstanding idea I think. It will be really great if Matrix will agree to make this scenario mod official, then we will be able to use this scenario mod for our pbem games.



Alexander Seil -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 10:42:47 PM)

In fact, getting them to recognize the mod officially may be the only way to prevent constant and annoying compatibility issues between their and community-produced fixes. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. Besides, excessive talent and activity on the side of the modders seems to encourage some developers (but hopefully not Matrix) to ignore scenario accuracy and detail in consequent releases. By the way, do not interpret it as if I dislike the idea...it's just that I want the fixes to be "official" and hence compatible with patches.



McNaughton -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 11:25:45 PM)

I was thinking that this should really just tackle some of the 'big' issues.

Some are, giving the RAF actuall air marshalls for their air units, and eliminating some erronious leaders and replacing them with some MIAs. Others are adding Walrus squadrons to RN cruisers/battleships, moving the arrival of the Grant tank until 1943, adding a difference between the two distinct versions of Hurricane fighters used, correcting some possible errors (manoverability of Lily and Sally possibly mixed up), adding some missing ships (RN Auxilliary vessels), but not necessarily adding too many small details (i.e., tweaking the speed of Battleship Y from 27 kts to 28 kts).

I think that if there are some proposals for some basic changes (i.e., have LtGen Yamashita command 25th Army in 1941, not 14th Area Army for 1944), this could be possible. I have worked with other games which are a bit easier to mod (as they have mutliple files you could easily cut and paste), but if we keep things 'simple', we could create a series of scenarios fixing some 'major' things, saving 'contraversial things', such as adding the USS Montana class, for supportive mods based upon the OOB-fix.



McNaughton -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 11:29:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mongo

Isn't the major problem we will face the fact that the database is full?

We would have to take stuff out to add new classes and such?

Nailing that down to everyone's satisfaction sounds like an undertaking to me [:D]


Some things, like the leader files, are virtually full, but other areas, like ships, ship classes, aircraft, etc. have significantly large amounts of space left for at least 'minor' additions.



Tankerace -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 11:55:01 PM)

Well, if this gets really going I'll contribute my OOB upgrade graphics to the mod.



mongo -> RE: Community Mod! (8/5/2004 11:59:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton
Some things, like the leader files, are virtually full, but other areas, like ships, ship classes, aircraft, etc. have significantly large amounts of space left for at least 'minor' additions.


Great! time to start making that "Final Countdown" scenario [:)]



Hipper -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 12:18:45 AM)

Yes

what we need to do is find some friendly web space where we can publish the mod
(hello Spooky [&o] ) then list the changes with reasons on a thread in this forum that way eveyone can see what has been done and then we can arrange PBMs with a moddified database which everyone can agree on.



This can even be done as fantasy mods ! (seperate database obviously)


so send your Dadabase to spooky soon



Spooky -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 12:28:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hipper

Yes

what we need to do is find some friendly web space where we can publish the mod
(hello Spooky [&o] ) then list the changes with reasons on a thread in this forum that way eveyone can see what has been done and then we can arrange PBMs with a moddified database which everyone can agree on.

This can even be done as fantasy mods ! (seperate database obviously)

so send your Dadabase to spooky soon


Why not ... please note however that my website will probably know some disruptions in the next weeks (I will be in holidays 2 weeks without an Internet connection then I will have to move ... and my ADSL connection will also have to move [:(]



Hipper -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 12:49:36 AM)

So we have a few weeks to get the database up to speed



McNaughton -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 1:18:30 AM)

I think that if this is to be done, we need to document it effectively.

Based on the editor, you should state where you editied a part (Devices, Classes, etc) as well as the unit number. There should be a 'master' list that you post changes to, so people don't apply changes on something that was just changed. This will also make it more desireable for Matrix if they ever show an interest in picking up the mod, as every change is heavily documented.



Hipper -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 1:40:09 AM)

What you are talking about is having a Mod database owner who makes the changes after suggestions are made to him through the thread...... you are also talking yourself into that job ......

Question which carrier had Three different types of fighters at the same time ?


cheers



CommC -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 1:47:59 AM)

One way this has worked in the TOAW world is to have 1 or 2 people serve as "authors" who actually make the changes, post what changes were made,etc. The scenario is posted on the the website, probably Spooky's, with a version number in the name. The version number is incremented as more and more changes are made. The latest version is posted, people comment on it, etc, etc. Then more changes are made based on the feedback, etc., a new version is posted, etc.

That way, if two people want to PBEM the scenario, they just have to make sure they are using the same version number, or can choose which version to play.



tanjman -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 2:20:11 PM)

McNaughton,

The problem with using RAF & RN ranks for LCU's is that unlike the US and Japanese the commonwealth forces are not split up into different services just a generic British, Austalian, etc. . . . Because of this any naval or air force officers assigned to lead a LCU will automaticly convert to the equivlent army rank.

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

I was thinking that this should really just tackle some of the 'big' issues.

Some are, giving the RAF actuall air marshalls for their air units, and eliminating some erronious leaders and replacing them with some MIAs. Others are adding Walrus squadrons to RN cruisers/battleships, moving the arrival of the Grant tank until 1943, adding a difference between the two distinct versions of Hurricane fighters used, correcting some possible errors (manoverability of Lily and Sally possibly mixed up), adding some missing ships (RN Auxilliary vessels), but not necessarily adding too many small details (i.e., tweaking the speed of Battleship Y from 27 kts to 28 kts).

I think that if there are some proposals for some basic changes (i.e., have LtGen Yamashita command 25th Army in 1941, not 14th Area Army for 1944), this could be possible. I have worked with other games which are a bit easier to mod (as they have mutliple files you could easily cut and paste), but if we keep things 'simple', we could create a series of scenarios fixing some 'major' things, saving 'contraversial things', such as adding the USS Montana class, for supportive mods based upon the OOB-fix.



Montbrun -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 2:54:46 PM)

quote:

McNaughton


I'm working on Allied ToE and OoB "fixes" now - give me about a month.....then the Japanese - LOL



Andy Mac -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 4:22:59 PM)

Guys great idea but rather than rushing and modifying the files right away shouldnt we wait for the 1st big OOB patch from Matrix (if its going to be within a month)

i.e. gather the data and get the list of changes ready but not actually implement until we see what official changes are made as Matrix may fix some or all of our concerns in an early patch.

Andy



UncleBuck -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 6:40:30 PM)

Organizational idea for this. Have seperate sections. By this give each section, US LEaders, JP leaders, Allied Ship OOB, JP aircraft etc. thier ow thread or permenant list. People that want to work on one or more of these topics can post that they are working on it, and what they are working on. This will keep redundant work to a minimum. If say 6 people want to re-vamp the Allied Leader lists they coudl break it down among them. One taking Sub leaders, on Squadron leaders one LCU leaders etc. No point in wasting effort on multiple good ideas. Maybe even work up MOD groups, that whay not just one person is making adecison as to the change. I do thin kthat if Matrix is ok with this it could make the game beter faster and cheaper. Face it the people wanting to do this are doing it for free, and that has got to be a good thing.'
'

One thing is that you should provide a bibliography and summary for all of the changes. That way the historic crowd can increase their reading list and see why it was made. Since you are already doing the research a bibliography should be no trouble.



Montbrun -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 8:04:48 PM)

^^^I agree, UncleBuck - sources are a must.....



Lemurs! -> RE: Community Mod! (8/6/2004 10:02:41 PM)

Hi all,

I think a community mod is a great idea but 3/4s of what you want is already in my scen 26. McNaughton, was there something i put in scen 26 that you completely disagree with?

Mike



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