CD fee?!?!

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fishfinder -> CD fee?!?! (8/8/2004 9:18:27 PM)
Was all set to purchase War in the Pacific but am a little perturbed to find out to learn that the advertised price does not include a backup CD. $69.00 is an awful lot of money for a computer game to find out at the checkout stand that there is a 22% additional charge to CYA. As one who has distributed CD/DVDs this seems a little exhorbitant. FREE SHIPPING my a$$. maybe another time...

Fallschirmjager -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 12:32:01 AM)
You can make your own backup. I put it on cd and zip disk both for backup.

fishfinder -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 1:04:25 AM)
The point is for $69 a disc should be included with printed manual and packaging displaying cool artwork. If the cost of printed documentation and traditional marketing are not included/associated with this product, why is it such an expensive purchase? Pacific War introduced me to this computer game genre. Fortunately my wife doesn't know how much $$$ I've spent on wargames since. I have anticipated the release of this game since I first got wind (not divine) of it, which seems like a couple years or more ago. Now, unfortunately, I don't think I'll be adding it to my collection.

Hertston -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 1:41:26 AM)
Matrix have detailed their pricing policy at some length. WitP is a "premium" product, which means (apparently) it is a hard-core wargame rather than a mass market game with wider appeal. Potential purchasers are limited, but those who do buy will get more than enough out of it to justify the price. What it's all about of course is the numbers. As with every other business, Matrix price their products at the figure they estimate will result in the biggest profit. Sure, if it was cheaper more would buy it, but how many more ? They will know their market and their customers. Actually I agree it's too expensive for me, which is why I havn't bought it. There are plenty of other games to play.

Salient -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 2:38:54 AM)
Yup, too expensive for me also.

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 2:52:08 AM)
If they make games that cost so much, I would appreciate a demo to play first. I will not spend 69$ on something I might end up hating, and then being unable to sell. Is the price justifiable? I have read a great many posts here from plp who would like to play it, but cannot afford it. As if the gengre itself wasn't enough to scare plp away, now the price does it too... [:(]

Hexed Gamer -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 3:15:01 AM)
Let's look at this in a different light. A used subcompact is not a SUV and certainly not a hummer. So what do you get with a used sub compact, something that works, likely is broke in but don't expect it to be oh wow flashy. An SUV, well it is quite handy, can do most anything, but will likely cost you full normal price of a decent car. The hummer isn't going to be free, but man it will be frickin awesome. And yes, the oh wow factor is right out there. Sooooo, does it matter how you buy either of the three? Nope. Matrix Games has decided if you want THEM to provide a cd then ask for it. Otherwise, with digital download, all you asked for was the download. Get over it, it's all they sold you. If you want the cd, then ask for it. But it matters not how cheap blank cds are, not even material. And it certainly is not material to how they determined the price of the program. Because if the program is worth 10 bucks or 100 bucks, that is the worth of the program. WitP is clearly a significant program. If you want it, accept it. If you want it on a cd, and can't burn it yourself, then put two and two together, and find someone to assist you (assuming you want to put it on your own 30 cent cd). And if you don't have one single friend with a cd burner handy, ain't it about time you added one? Or, considering how cheap cd burners are, why not just finally buy one. http://www.canadacomputers.com/cdrom.html CD burners starting at 34 bucks Canadian. To cheap to even call an expense eh.

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 3:43:48 AM)
What you in essense say is that whatever price a company set, is the correct price. And if someone disagree, they are cheap? Stupid? What makes you KNOW that 69$ are the best price? And 10$ for a CD is a fair price? When you see a subcompact (whatever that is) to the price of a hummer, dont dare question it, just 'get over it'.

PeckingFury -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:00:23 AM)
Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? It is cheap in my opinion. How many games would you buy in this alloted time frame? Since you are on a gamming forum I would expect you to play games which would mean you would purchase the games, over the next 5 years how many games at 40 bucks a pop did you blow your money on over the past 5 years which probably came with a colorful map,a printed manual,and a box to set on your shelf collecting dust. If you are the least bit interested in the pacific war then you are really missing out on a gem. Just my 2 cents.

Cmdrcain -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:01:00 AM)
Get real... Often if you want a CD of things you have to pay a fee. You can download often manythings but like if i want a CD copy of the latest interface install of my Video card, its a $10 charge, shipping included in that, I can download and install the update but if I want a CD I have to pay. Matrix is saving costs by digital download, frankly if those complaining of wanting a paper manuel, cd etc got it the price likely for the game would be around $120 Mass marketed stuff in a box may have a printed manuel but thats mass merchandised stuff with the profit margin thinner. I didn't like price either but saved for it and its worth it it will give one plenty of bang for their bucks. Btw as to DEMOS , dang it, theres alot of games sold online and also in stores you DO NOT GET demos to try before buy! [&o]

Hexed Gamer -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:11:15 AM)
Who said 69 US was thrilling? It's going to have to wait till my christmas wish list in my case. I just ain't got that sort of mullah handy. Who said 10 bucks for a cd was acceptable? I just know, that only a dim person pays 10 bucks US to get a digital file burned to a cd when cd burners are already yesterdays news. If it isn't the case where you live, then hmm I guess that sucks. DVD burners are going for 59 bucks here, so even they are now a mundane item. When I finally score the 69 bucks for the download, I will burn it to cd myself. Because to spend 10 bucks for a cd, is the same as spending 150 for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked). But hey, if I was Matrix Games, I would not have problems with charging whatever I wanted for my products either. If I felt it was worth 69 bucks, that's what I would want. And if I felt the burning of a cd that would require a few valuable manhours was worth 10 bucks, that is what I would expect of the buyer. The fact that it would take me 20 minutes or less to do it myself is not relevant. What is relevant, is the fact it can be done so easily in 20 minutes onto a 30 cent cd on a mundane commonly found cd burner, is why are you insisting on Matrix Games do it at all? And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale? That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though. Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes. I am hoping to get that cured :)

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:22:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain Get real... Often if you want a CD of things you have to pay a fee. You can download often manythings but like if i want a CD copy of the latest interface install of my Video card, its a $10 charge, shipping included in that, I can download and install the update but if I want a CD I have to pay. Matrix is saving costs by digital download, frankly if those complaining of wanting a paper manuel, cd etc got it the price likely for the game would be around $120 Mass marketed stuff in a box may have a printed manuel but thats mass merchandised stuff with the profit margin thinner. I didn't like price either but saved for it and its worth it it will give one plenty of bang for their bucks. Btw as to DEMOS , dang it, theres alot of games sold online and also in stores you DO NOT GET demos to try before buy! [&o] Reality is that many has complained about the price and policy of some Matrix games. Reality is that they scould be able to criticise this whithout having to 'get over it'. How many of these people who want the game, but dont want to spend 79$ on it end up downloading it from the net for 0$? It took me 1 minute to find 2 Matrix titles on the net. It is even more tempting because you dont get less than you get from a Matrix DD (no manual or CD). You say that often you have to pay extra for a game CD, and I disagree. In fact most potential new customers of WitP and games like it will disagree. I guess many games comes without a demo. Its ok if I know what kind of game it is, and most of them are your standard FPS or something you know beforehand. Read a coule of reviews, and you get a good feel for the game. WitP is nothing like your standard DOOM clone, is it? I believe WitP is a complex game one might very well end up hating. A demo would maybe prove otherwise... I cannot see any real downside of providing a demo. The fact that some games don't have demos does not change this for me, as it does to you.

Cmdrcain -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:24:04 AM)
Yeah People: Your thinking in simple terms, sure it only takes oh so many Mins to Burn onto what now is cheap Cd's but the fact is any fee for a CD provided includes all the Handling costs of that... The handling cost of the salary of the person burning em and the salary cost in the handling of the person processing the insertion and mailing out of the Cd are in there. What DR and Matrix really should have done was set the REGULAR price as the Price with a CD sent... and a DISCOUNT price if you only ordered a digital download and burnt your own.. Ie: $80 as the NORMAL, Regular price, CD included with an OPTION to buy it for $70 as a Digital only download.. The fact is thats what it is, but that they simply mishandled the presentation making the CD an "extra" instead the Digital only way should be a "discount" price way. Want Cd? Pay the normal price of $80, want a Discount? Pay $70

Cmdrcain -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:28:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked). And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale? That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though. Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes. I am hoping to get that cured :) What is ASL? [:D] As to Boxes, Gee I have every box for all the games I've bought laying about even back to my c-64 days... looking over at carrier Strike, Geopolitique, Battlecruiser, Midway, Nukewar, etc [:D]

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:35:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer Who said 69 US was thrilling? It's going to have to wait till my christmas wish list in my case. I just ain't got that sort of mullah handy. Who said 10 bucks for a cd was acceptable? I just know, that only a dim person pays 10 bucks US to get a digital file burned to a cd when cd burners are already yesterdays news. If it isn't the case where you live, then hmm I guess that sucks. DVD burners are going for 59 bucks here, so even they are now a mundane item. When I finally score the 69 bucks for the download, I will burn it to cd myself. Because to spend 10 bucks for a cd, is the same as spending 150 for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked). But hey, if I was Matrix Games, I would not have problems with charging whatever I wanted for my products either. If I felt it was worth 69 bucks, that's what I would want. And if I felt the burning of a cd that would require a few valuable manhours was worth 10 bucks, that is what I would expect of the buyer. The fact that it would take me 20 minutes or less to do it myself is not relevant. What is relevant, is the fact it can be done so easily in 20 minutes onto a 30 cent cd on a mundane commonly found cd burner, is why are you insisting on Matrix Games do it at all? And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale? That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though. Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes. I am hoping to get that cured :) I hope Matrix wont loose too many customers over these prices, and I guess they have done their calulations on the matter. And despite my critism I trust them on that. 69$ may be the best price of course. Not bothering with a demo is their choise naturally. But im afraid that if all the response they always got was 'great stuff! You can charge me whatever' simply because you like a title or 2, then Mr $man in Matri$ might just do that. So hurrah for Fishfinder because his post will be good for all of us. I am oldfashioned, I guess, but when I finally buy a game, it is like a gift for me [:)] I want a box to look good beside the PC, I want colorful manuals and a fancy CD. Sure, Ill get over it, and joint you guys in the future of shopping, but it is my prerogative to say I disagree [:D]

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:40:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeckingFury Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well... Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D]

Cmdrcain -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JallaTryne Reality is that many has complained about the price and policy of some Matrix games. Reality is that they scould be able to criticise this whithout having to 'get over it'. How many of these people who want the game, but dont want to spend 79$ on it end up downloading it from the net for 0$? It took me 1 minute to find 2 Matrix titles on the net. It is even more tempting because you dont get less than you get from a Matrix DD (no manual or CD). You say that often you have to pay extra for a game CD, and I disagree. In fact most potential new customers of WitP and games like it will disagree. I guess many games comes without a demo. Its ok if I know what kind of game it is, and most of them are your standard FPS or something you know beforehand. Read a coule of reviews, and you get a good feel for the game. WitP is nothing like your standard DOOM clone, is it? I believe WitP is a complex game one might very well end up hating. A demo would maybe prove otherwise... I cannot see any real downside of providing a demo. The fact that some games don't have demos does not change this for me, as it does to you. Of course there would be hacks Pricing... look around, many mass marketed games come out at a $50-$60 price, this is not a Mass marketed game so it is going be less marketed, its price is low in that sense. Btw were Matrix titles found the FREE War in Russia and Pacific war? restating: With Digital Downloads it is reasonable to charge a handling fee to also send a CD instead of a person simply downloading it and burning own so the $10 extra is a handling fee to do what you could do yourself with a cd burner. For those without a CD burner its not an unreasonable fee, companys DO charge fees for updated CD's and for replacing CD's that go bad

Cmdrcain -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:46:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JallaTryne quote: ORIGINAL: PeckingFury Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well... Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D] WITP is based on the DOS version of Pacific war which still is played despite it being a DOS game and old graphics... oh and in a sense the FREE Pacific War game is a sort of demo for their Windows remake... Just the windows game has alot more to it but it is based on the old game.. So I'd say given how long the DOS versions been played that Yup, WITP will be played 5-15 years.

fishfinder -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:47:02 AM)
quote: Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? Hell, the war didn't even last that long. Hard to imagine the appeal of a particular game lasting longer especially one being marketed to such a narrow audience (ie to those with the ego that requires driving a Hummer where a Honda could take you more efficiently and cost effectively...no wonder furure generations of games will feature Iraq)

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:49:58 AM)
The games were Korsun pocket and HTTR. Also 'Accros Dniepr' was online, but I counted it in Korsun. I own a copy of Korsun, and I have no need to download HTTR. But many out there would't think twice about it. Sure, hacks are here to stay, Im just pointing out that it is a factor to consider when deciding a price, and the higher the price, the easier it is to do this.

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 4:52:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain quote: ORIGINAL: JallaTryne quote: ORIGINAL: PeckingFury Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well... Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D] WITP is based on the DOS version of Pacific war which still is played despite it being a DOS game and old graphics... oh and in a sense the FREE Pacific War game is a sort of demo for their Windows remake... Just the windows game has alot more to it but it is based on the old game.. So I'd say given how long the DOS versions been played that Yup, WITP will be played 5-15 years. Well, my point was that that may be correct to anyone who likes the game. Maybe no everyone will like it, despite it is made by the most hardcore professional wargame simulation folks in the world [;)]

Hexed Gamer -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 5:30:02 AM)
There have been some interesting comments made in recent posts. Implying a person can get a game "free" by "downloading" it, walks a dangerous topic area actually. But the comment about playing a game for 5 years does not imply the game will require 5 years to play it once, but likely implies in 5 years you will still be enjoying the purchase you made 5 years ago. Ask yourself more correctly, how many games that you bought 5 years ago, do you still give a hoot for?

Error in 0 -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 6:35:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer Implying a person can get a game "free" by "downloading" it, walks a dangerous topic area actually. What do you mean? Is it not free? Do I advise people to break the law and do this? Do you think hordes of gamers out there is shocked by the revelation of cracks, and rush to the internet? What is your point? quote: But the comment about playing a game for 5 years does not imply the game will require 5 years to play it once, but likely implies in 5 years you will still be enjoying the purchase you made 5 years ago. Really [;)] ? quote: Ask yourself more correctly, how many games that you bought 5 years ago, do you still give a hoot for? Instead: ask yourself why you dont read my post.

Hexed Gamer -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 7:02:33 AM)
I could be wrong. This comment... "How many of these people who want the game, but dont want to spend 79$ on it end up downloading it from the net for 0$? It took me 1 minute to find 2 Matrix titles on the net. It is even more tempting because you dont get less than you get from a Matrix DD (no manual or CD)." Simply sounded like an off handed way of remarking how commercially sold games can be "located" online being offered "free" when in fact they were not free. It is remarks like that, which tend to get a person in dangerous waters was all I was claiming.

PeckingFury -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 7:14:58 AM)
You pay the price, you download the software and enjoy or not. Its the way matrix wants to do business, some may not like it others wont mind. Not getting a cd free makes no difference to me, my opinion ofcourse. There arent too many companies out there that make great wargames, matrix is no ID software or Blizzard or Sony. A small company like matrix needs to keep a closer eye on waste. I prefer digital download more convenient for me, and in the end thats what it comes down to, what I like.

ravinhood -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 7:48:11 AM)
quote: What you in essense say is that whatever price a company set, is the correct price. And if someone disagree, they are cheap? Stupid? What makes you KNOW that 69$ are the best price? And 10$ for a CD is a fair price? When you see a subcompact (whatever that is) to the price of a hummer, dont dare question it, just 'get over it'. I have to agree with Jalla on this one, buying a vehicle vs buying a "game" for mere entertainment is a major different issue. I personally think the price of the game without a CD and manual is rather expensive as well. But, I don't care for monster games anyway, so, it doesn't affect me either way. But, I think in all fairness to those that do enjoy monster games, they have every right to complain about pricing and inclusions of articles like CD's and maunals. It's what makes "competition" out there, if someone else comes along and provides near the same game for $59 with a cd and a manual (and in a retail outlet), who do you think we are likely to purchase it from? ;) I won't be purchasing many of Matrixs games because of this direct sale for download only, cd $10 extra, because I don't like that type of purchasing. I have dialup and I'm not going to sit for days downloading a game that they could just as easily box up and market it on the shelves of Best Buy, Ebgames and other software outlets which I frequent regularly. And yep I'll miss out on a lot of games. Oh well. It's probably a major reason wargaming is dying as it is, too many wargame developers have pulled out of the retail market and not enough NEW people can know about their games, because they restrict everything to direct sales. What about wargamers that don't even own an internet connection? Look at the masses they are losing just by making them online download from this aspect. HPS, Shrapnel, and now Matrix all pulling out of the retail avenue of sales (or never were involved, I can't remember the last HPS or Shrapnel game I saw on a retail shelf), not good for computer wargaming, not good at all. I've been wargaming for 35 years, and it wasn't until like 2002 that I even heard about Wargamer.com. So look at all those years I never even knew about HPS, Shrapnel or Matrix. All I ever knew was what I saw in a "retail" outlet. That's where I went, it's still where I go to buy most games, but, I will use ebay now also to buy games, since downloading is out of the question. At least HPS and Sharpnel offer the complete games in a box, though HPS has gone to this PDF file type of manual instructions. I just don't like that at all, thus have only bought one HPS game to date. I'm thinking about Gettysburg (their new one), thinking thinking thinking, maybe if I wait awhile it will be on ebay. hehe

Hertston -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 10:19:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ravinhood I've been wargaming for 35 years, and it wasn't until like 2002 that I even heard about Wargamer.com. So look at all those years I never even knew about HPS, Shrapnel or Matrix. All I ever knew was what I saw in a "retail" outlet. That's where I went, it's still where I go to buy most games, but, I will use ebay now also to buy games, since downloading is out of the question. At least HPS and Sharpnel offer the complete games in a box, though HPS has gone to this PDF file type of manual instructions. I just don't like that at all, thus have only bought one HPS game to date. I'm thinking about Gettysburg (their new one), thinking thinking thinking, maybe if I wait awhile it will be on ebay. hehe I may be wrong, but aren't WitP and Sharshatter going to get box releases this month ? Sure, that's by mail and not in stores, but again that's a commercial decision - would distribution to retail outlets generate enough additional sales to cover the costs ? Remember for each copy sold Matrix would receive far less than on those they sell directly. As far as I'm aware the Combat Mission series never had a store release in the US (they did in Europe), and it didn't seem to do Battlefront any harm. On downloads (the illegal kind), they will happen whether this gets talked about or not. There are some things Matrix, and every other publisher, can do such as registration codes and restricted access to patches but losing some sales to downloads is inevitable, just like music CDs. Matrix are lucky to a large extent in that the nature of the games and their customers will minimise the problem - Doom 3 is likely to have as many downloaders as purchasers. Personally I'm a huge fan of the (legal) download route, although there should certainly be box releases as well - as you say not everybody has broadband or indeed internet access at all. All of the big wargame publishers are in the States, and it's great to buy on release without worrying about shipping costs, long delays for a UK release, and different versions (sanitisation in the case of CMBtB, seperate and delayed patches for most everything else). If HPS had had a download option - God only knows why they don't - I'd have bought a lot more of their stuff over the last couple of years.

ravinhood -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 10:51:25 AM)
quote: As far as I'm aware the Combat Mission series never had a store release in the US (they did in Europe), and it didn't seem to do Battlefront any harm. Yep, got both Combat Mission and Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin both in retail outlets here, even had a bundled set they sold with both included. Haven't seen Combat Mission Africa Korp yet, but, I have no doubts it will make it to the retail market like the others soon enough. Oh and that's another thing about computer games these days, patches, without an internet connection how does one obtain a "free" fix to a broken game, that they can't return for a refund to software outlets? Even when I buy a book (media), I can return it for another book or a "full refund" if pages are missing (faulty/buggy software) When you think about it, some of us have to spend $120 (dialup) and for those with cable $360 a year, for what? Patches? Email? Piddling in forums? Downloading games we have to pay a "premium" price for as well as the internet connection?? Think about the whole picture here, it's costing us a lot of money to maintain our hobby, that was not always there back in the 80's. You could call up a software developer or publisher and they would send you "free" patch disks in the mail. You also could "return" faulty software for a "full refund". Things sure have changed and the costs are coming more out of our pockets. You could even call them up on the phone 1-800 numbers and they would give you technical help with getting the game to work on your system. If I could get free patches in the mail, and be able to buy all games through a retailer with the ability for a refund, I'd have no need for the internet. It's just another nicety, it shouldn't be a necessity for getting patches and fixes for games. And don't think we that pay these "premium" prices for games aren't paying for those that pirate games as well. That's what really burns me up the most. We who are honest just have to keep paying and paying and paying more and getting more and more faulty and buggy software games for our efforts, thus having to maintain internet connections for some, just for a mere patch or in Paradox's case umteenjillion. Software developers/Publishers philosophy: Oh nevermind the pirates, we'll just charge the honest people more. Cost them more money to hire private dectectives and lawyers and of course bad publicity in the long run to go after pirates. Sure is unfair to those of us who support their work I think.

2ndACR -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 11:22:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JallaTryne quote: ORIGINAL: PeckingFury Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well... Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D] 5 hours? If you bought the game, it would take you 5 hours just to browse the map and see where everything is. Not to mention just looking at the numbers of ground forces, ship, air units the allies get as reinforcments. Shoot, this game is worth 3X as much as they are charging. I also have dialup. I paid and waited the 11 days for the backup disc. Of course the Patch was a bear. I do not forsee purchasing another wargame for at least 10 years. Unless Matrix/2by3 release WIR2. (hint) Most people pay 49.99 at the store for a first person shooter that they beat on the hardest level in a month. And then they can always beat it. I could load up Ghost Recon right now and go thru the first 4 missions without losing a man. Not to mention the add ons at 19.99 a pop. Twice. Beat them and removed them. Since I have dial up at 56k I am not keen on digital download of games. Patches I can handle if they are less than 10mb. But with high speed internet fairly common now adays it makes sense. I will pay the 10 dollars for the disc. Manuals (I do not use them) are a waste of space for me. I am a jump right in and figure it out sort. Box (lasts until I open the game, then its trash).

Hertston -> RE: CD fee?!?! (8/9/2004 11:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ravinhood And don't think we that pay these "premium" prices for games aren't paying for those that pirate games as well. That's what really burns me up the most. We who are honest just have to keep paying and paying and paying more and getting more and more faulty and buggy software games for our efforts, thus having to maintain internet connections for some, just for a mere patch or in Paradox's case umteenjillion. Software developers/Publishers philosophy: Oh nevermind the pirates, we'll just charge the honest people more. Cost them more money to hire private dectectives and lawyers and of course bad publicity in the long run to go after pirates. Sure is unfair to those of us who support their work I think. Of course prices will take account of that, and yes it is unfair on those of us who stump up hard earned cash. Like many things that are unfair though, there isn't much that can be done about it. You can hit those who counterfeit CDs, and they (especially the music industry) do, but most piracy is done via peer-to-peer networks linking home PCs. Millions of people are equally culpable, the great majority of whom are kids it would be pointless to sue in any civil action even if you traced them. Those who write the necessary software have learned from the Napster experience how to keep it legal... and peer-to-peer does indeed have perfectly legitimate uses, albeit for a timy minority of users. If you think about it, raising prices to compensate is not a solution - higher prices means more piracy. Indeed, across the board I've seen no evidence of that happening - in the UK the price of PC games hasn't changed in three years, and with at least one major retail outlet cutting �5 of everybody else's prices and some really cheap net-shopping options (like play.com, which is almost half-price on big releases) games are cheaper than ever before. A couple of attempts were made to push the price up by a fiver (I seem to recall Neverwinter Nights, and a couple of M$ releases), but a great many voted against that with their wallets. I don't disagree with your sentiments at all, but I do think that what both music and games publishers can do to combat piracy, they have done.

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